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Author Topic: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ  (Read 323510 times)

Reply #60March 18, 2009, 06:45:47 am

Sierra94

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2009, 06:45:47 am »
:D

Im already using the 1.6 idle system in my IP. And I trimmed the LDA lever aswell as the throttle lever so they wont bind during their movement.

And I also grinded some material of the governor cage lever like 410 did to keep it from binding due to incorrect angles.

It will soon be installed in the car and tested. Right now Im using a 1.9 TD IP with 12 mm head and all the other "free" mods done to it. But It lacks power compared when it was installed on the AAZ engine. So this will be interesting.
<-- My M-tdi Mazda B-1800 and my other cars

Reply #61March 18, 2009, 05:31:41 pm

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2009, 05:31:41 pm »
Nice... keep us informed and tell us what you think of the final result!

If you use a 12mm head, you will need to make adjustment for the timing curve. I unfortunately don't know which regulator/advance system combo to use. I think a 1.9td advance system with a IVECO pump regulator could work pretty well... but never tested.

If the timing advance was ok before, it will still be ok.

I know that a stock 12mm mtdi bosch pump has:

regulator
# 1 460 362 020
advance system large spring : 1 464 618 934 (which is the same as the AAZ one)
advance system small spring : 1 464 616 333 (1 464 616 963 on an AAZ pump)

advance system piston 1 463 104 657 (1 463 104 564 on an AAZ pump)

So the main spring is the same on a AAZ pump, but the advance system is different so you may need to adjust the shims. Also, the small spring is different so you may also need to adjust the shims.

You will also need a regulator that allows higher pressure. Usually mechanical pump with only ONE spring as advance system will have regulator that allows for higher pressure. So instead of the 1 460 362 020 regulator you could use a regulator from a 11mm pump with a one spring advance system. On a IVECO pump you have just that, and they seem easy to find.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #62March 18, 2009, 09:26:32 pm

foxracer1

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2009, 09:26:32 pm »
[/quote]Image 10

You must adjust the axis so that the small holes on the regulator sleeve (look between the wings of the governor with a strong lamp) mask completely the hole approximately 0.25 to 0.5mm before arriving at the end of travel.

If you hear the engine clatter to much at throttle, unscrew a little bit the axis.
Quote


How do you adjust this? I put my IDI ump together with a TDI 10mm head/plunger and i have a lot of clater at part throttle. i backed the gov shaft out 1.5 turns and its better but i wanna know how to adjust it
84 4dr Rabbit 1.6 N/A sold to friend
86 Jetta TD getting raced out AHU 02A
98 Jetta TDI Malone tune stg 3
91 S10 305 TPI T56
86 S10 2WD Prerunner project.


Now offering turbo rebuilds. HP or stock. Any turbo you have i can rebuild it for ya.
Reseal injection pumps PM for det

Reply #63March 19, 2009, 10:58:37 am

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2009, 10:58:37 am »
Once the pump is on your car, you can adjust it by ear and feeling. Also, don't forget to adjust the regulator by putting your car in 3rd or 4th an snapping it until 4000rpm. The car should feel strong up to 4000rpm.

Did you also modify the levers? put tdi camplate? 1.6td regulator?
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #64March 19, 2009, 03:10:17 pm

foxracer1

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2009, 03:10:17 pm »
I just set it up for IDI used everything IDI except the plunger and head. I pulled everthing but the vane pump apart. I counted the turns out when i removed the gov shaft but don't feel confident i got it back in correctly. I drilled a hole in the pump mount bracket so i can adjust it with out removing the pump.

I just rebuilt the engine so i'm not running full fuel or boost yet till i get some miles on it.
84 4dr Rabbit 1.6 N/A sold to friend
86 Jetta TD getting raced out AHU 02A
98 Jetta TDI Malone tune stg 3
91 S10 305 TPI T56
86 S10 2WD Prerunner project.


Now offering turbo rebuilds. HP or stock. Any turbo you have i can rebuild it for ya.
Reseal injection pumps PM for det

Reply #65March 22, 2009, 09:53:45 am

dts67

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2009, 09:53:45 am »
Hi, where I live theres several vans and cars running factory m-tdi setup, Ive stripped a few and the di camplate seems very similar to the vw, can I use the gov and principle levers from one of these pumps instead of modding my own? They seem to be pre modified although I havent made a gabarit to check the principle lever travel heres a pic of the governor levers. All the factory m-tdi governor levers I've seen dont seem to use an intermediate spring in the assembly?
[/img]

Reply #66March 23, 2009, 07:51:14 pm

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« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2009, 07:51:14 pm »
Do they have a dual axis principal lever?
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #67March 24, 2009, 04:51:00 pm

snakemaster

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2009, 04:51:00 pm »
Quote from: "dts67"
Hi, where I live theres several vans and cars running factory m-tdi setup, Ive stripped a few and the di camplate seems very similar to the vw, can I use the gov and principle levers from one of these pumps instead of modding my own? They seem to be pre modified although I havent made a gabarit to check the principle lever travel heres a pic of the governor levers. All the factory m-tdi governor levers I've seen dont seem to use an intermediate spring in the assembly?
[/img]


vw m-tdis ? you got more info on this .
 that governor lever on the left lookes like a transit di one
i have done my control lever in a difrant way , but serves the same movment to the control spool
Glenmorangie  single highland malt

Reply #68March 24, 2009, 08:09:41 pm

dts67

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2009, 08:09:41 pm »
@snakemaster- No, not vws, so far rover 2.0d and transit I've stripped but seen others. The lever is from a rover but the transits looks the same.
@hey- I'm near sure it is, I'll check tomorrow. I'm trying to get a di camplate working in an idi engine (1.9 psa xud), I've read nearly all your 'english' posts and know roughly what to do, you mentioned setting the break point of the injectors to match the camplate, thats no problem but do I then need pre-injection and 2 spring injectors? I've had the car running with an afn di camplate in the pump but the principle lever travel is to short and the engine is LOUD with injectors @175 bar :lol:

Reply #69March 25, 2009, 07:01:41 pm

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« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2009, 07:01:41 pm »
Quote
I've had the car running with an afn di camplate in the pump but the principle lever travel is to short


Yes.. you give very little fuel but a lot of advance with this lever and a Di camplate.

For the dual axis lever:

if the principal lever is a dual axis one you will need to use the throttle lever with only one spring because if you use a 1.6td one you will have unstable idle ~1300RPM. (check at the end of the post by beslau on the french part... page 8 )
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17942&start=105

He had a dual axis principal lever with a 1.6td throttle lever spring set and he had problems because the dual axis lever ALREADY integrate a function to regularize the idle.. so you need a throttle lever that does not have a idle spring (the very soft one).

I think using a 1.6td throttle spring set with the idle spring removed could work.

Also.. the throttle lever he uses with this type of principal lever have 17mm between the two axis. The one you show seems to have only 14mm. You might need to "improve" this a little bit.


Keep us informed on the idi with DI camplate project!
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #70March 25, 2009, 08:47:40 pm

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« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2009, 08:47:40 pm »
Well, I've been running my pump now for about a 100km of various kinds of driving and things are going well.  Here's my list.
-TDI camplate
-11mm head
-aaz pump body and mech. adv.
-1.6 top with unmodified throttle lever
-Modified control lever as per heys instructions

I've noticed cold starts aren't the best.  So I advanced the basic timing just a little bit and now it's a little noisy.  But the power is better in the top end.  

So I'm thinking of backing the pump back just a little bit and removing a shim for the large spring on the mechanical advance.  I was also thinking about using the cold start lever for cooler days but I'm a little worried about it letting go on me.  Anyway, the pump does work well, I just have some fine tuning left.  This little tdi moves my toyota pickup around very well.  Weighing in at 3700lb!  Thanks again hey for all your writeups, and everyone else who has contributed.
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #71March 25, 2009, 10:08:19 pm

Hey

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« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2009, 10:08:19 pm »
nice job... happy for you!!!

Since you have a 11mm head, if you want.. use a tdi advance system with the 1.6td regulator. It should work very well for your 11mm head for 1000RPM to 4000RPM

Set it to 1mm... it may clatter more at idle but it's ok.. if you want the clatter to go away at idle, you may increase the tdi shim thickness (of the advance spring) just very little.

If you keep the 1.9td system you may remove a shim (better to use a thinner one instead of removing it)  as you said AND you may also put a 12V switch for the selenoid in the front of the pump for cold start idling. You may also set it between 1mm and 1.15mm... depending on the clatter.

Also, adjust the regulator if needed.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #72March 25, 2009, 11:38:06 pm

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« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2009, 11:38:06 pm »
Hey, when you say 1.6 regulator, do you mean the advance piston or the rotating weights?  which is what I call the governer.   I don't have a tdi advance mechanism so I think I'll stay with the 1.9 setup.  

I moved the pump today just a little bit to try to get a better cold start but I totally forgot about the solenoid on the side of the pump!  Thanks again Hey.  I had that solenoid hooked up when I was running the aaz pump in stock form on the tdi and it started awsome just didn't do anything else very well.

I'm just going to reset my basic timing, rewire that solenoid and drive it.  I really am just getting picky,
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #73March 26, 2009, 08:20:23 am

Hey

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mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2009, 08:20:23 am »
DON'T put 12V on this selenoid all the time... just for idling!

The governor is the thing with the rotating weight... the regulator is screwed in the pump close to the t-belt.

Look here,
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18852 (in french though.. use the word version and the traduction utility)
or http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18856

there is a picture of the regulator in figure 4 and 7. Use a 1.6td one (if you can have one it would be easier) and try adjusting it. ....  play with shims for the advance system.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #74March 26, 2009, 08:27:56 am

dts67

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« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2009, 08:27:56 am »
@hey- Thanks man, the principle lever is dual axis and Ive a longer throttle lever than the one pictured, I'll be shimming the injectors out at the weekend and refitting the pump with an 11mm head and the levers then I'll work on advance. I'll report idi w/di plate results back soon after.

 

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