Building AAZ motor; meet Harley

[R.O.R-2.0]

PRetty sure the gas 1.7, 1.8 and diesel early 1.6 and later 1.6 had the dowels for gasket and head alignment too. Atleast my 91 1.6 D had them, and my gf's 90 1.8 Gas had them.. lol

they got them in 89, or 90..

NONE of my diesels have had alignment dowels..

the 1992 8v out of my Jetta had them.

the 1990 16v out of my other jetta had them.

the engine in my 85 GTI did NOT have them.

my MF turbo diesel DID NOT have them either..

[CrazyAndy]

it looks like you're starting to get some rust on the inside of your cylinder walls.  i'd smear some oil on those surfaces pronto! (don't ask how i know)

Thanks for catching that, I didn't even look at that part of the pic.  I'll do that as soon as I come home from work!

And at 8v, my old 1.6D I'm replacing has no head alignment dowels, so what R.O.R. is saying is most likely true.

[theman53]

I know my mk1 TD block, my 85 TD block, and the 86 N/A block did NOT have any pins whatsoever for the head gasket. I thought it was a MKIII thing, but glad to know the early 90's had them.

[flowmastergfunk]

I love learning all these tiny new tid-bits of fact about these cars and engines. Everybody on this site is just so good about sharing the knowledge that they have acquired to confirm or correct what others post. Just wanted to throw that out there! Thank you 

[R.O.R-2.0]

I love learning all these tiny new tid-bits of fact about these cars and engines. Everybody on this site is just so good about sharing the knowledge that they have acquired to confirm or correct what others post. Just wanted to throw that out there! Thank you 

i LOVE sharing the knowledge that i have acquired..

a good portion of what i know, was due to reading this forum, or from hands on experience.

i dont mind sharing what i know, when others are open to listen, or contribute their own ideas as well..

[CrazyAndy]

I love learning all these tiny new tid-bits of fact about these cars and engines. Everybody on this site is just so good about sharing the knowledge that they have acquired to confirm or correct what others post. Just wanted to throw that out there! Thank you 

i LOVE sharing the knowledge that i have acquired..

a good portion of what i know, was due to reading this forum, or from hands on experience.

i dont mind sharing what i know, when others are open to listen, or contribute their own ideas as well..

I agree; information is the key; and being here makes me feel like a high school janitor.     SO much great info, and a chance to share your own!  Honestly if not for this site continuing with this rebuild would have be difficult.


And in other news, the machinist looks to have boogered up my re-bore.  I used  a digital dial bore gauge calibrated to 80.01mm to  check bore taper and out-of-round.  Here are my readings.  Note all measurements are plus the above measurement baseline, and (H)horizontal is correspondent to viewing the block deck, with the front of the engine as 'bottom':

              H               V
C1
T       0.026mm     0.028mm
M      0.014mm     0.022mm
B       0.030mm     0.026mm

C2
T       0.034mm     0.032mm
M      0.016mm     0.032mm
B       0.032mm     0.030mm

C3
T       0.032mm     0.034mm
M      0.020mm     0.038mm
B       0.036mm     0.036mm

C4
T       0.028mm     0.026mm
M      0.020mm     0.024mm
B       0.036mm     0.032mm

After running some math on circumference of the cylinders (in inches on that), I determined that these measurements would increase any new  ring gap (0.007"-0.015") by 0.001727"-0.004676", which I'll round/simplify to 0.002"-0.005"
So as it seems that would be the reason behind my recently-measured excessive ring end gap, which measures anywhere from 0.024"  to 0.031".

Now I'll have to get the block bore out ANOTHER 0.5mm, to 80.51mm, but not by the same machinist.  Really pissed right now.  Why the hell can't anything NOT cost me more money?  :evil:

NOTE:   I'll admit I took these measurements with the main caps not torqued, but the top and bottom measurements I think speak for themselves.

Lastly, at least the piston skirts measure in correctly at 79.98mm exactly.  Too bad it looks like I'll need another set. 

[theman53]

May want to wait on that.
Swaintech coatings has a sandable/machinable coating for the skirts to take up excess slop. They told me with that coating you could possibly run std. pistons in an engine that needed bored. Just a suggestion, it is WAY cheaper than new pistons.
http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/automotive-coatings/automotive-coatings-price-sheet/


PC-9 is the coating in question IIRC

[CrazyAndy]

May want to wait on that.
Swaintech coatings has a sandable/machinable coating for the skirts to take up excess slop. They told me with that coating you could possibly run std. pistons in an engine that needed bored. Just a suggestion, it is WAY cheaper than new pistons.
http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/automotive-coatings/automotive-coatings-price-sheet/


PC-9 is the coating in question IIRC

Well the piston clearance is not as much of a problem as the excessive ring end gap is, and the somewhat questionable out-of-round the cylinders seem to have in the middle.  I figure I can maybe get some 1mm O/S rings and grind them down to fit; anyone done this to a ring set before?  Bentley says the max deviation is 0.1mm aka 0.0039"", and I know I'm within that, but what do you think of that out-of-round?  My main concern beyond piston clearance is oil consumption after break-in.  I don't want anything potentially causing oil consumption, as I list building an engine and having it consume oil post-breakin as a failure.  As for the pistons, It would be a good excuse to get full coating.   

ADHD version, I can get and make parts work, but with those measurements would it still be worth it, or just re-bore?  I really wish my bank account could support this build pacing, but dammit! 

[theman53]

I am in the same spot now with the 1.6 I have. The old machinist said it was at 2.0-2.5mm when I checked them this winter. New guy says 6mm, so I am buying klobenshmidt and having them coated as you cannot take up that much room. Mine also were out of round, but he didn't say how much.
I like you do consider it a fail to have the oil issues, so for me it isn't a question to buy the new parts. I just figured I would give you a possible option. I wouldn't like knowing I rebuilt an engine and it is 1/2 worn out already, when just another 500.-- or so would have made it new. Good luck.

[CRSMP5]

18hr since it let post last...... 2nd one...

situation sux... what did you find on the head surfacing issues?

[libbydiesel]

While those numbers stink (basically doubling the actual piston to cylinder new spec) then are only halfway to the wear limit.  Definitely a legitimate cause to gripe but if the correct rings are supplied, the ring gaps should not be outside spec.  I'd torque in the main caps and measure the bores again.  The out-of-round and taper may get better with the caps in place as that is how it should have been bored.  If the torqued caps don't help, then I would not hesitate to have a good talk with the machinist.  To correct the situation, the total expense you're looking at (and basically what you are owed) is another set of pistons, another re-bore and the fact that you have effectively lost a rebuild (I have no idea how to quantify that loss).   

[R.O.R-2.0]

I am in the same spot now with the 1.6 I have. The old machinist said it was at 2.0-2.5mm when I checked them this winter. New guy says 6mm, so I am buying klobenshmidt and having them coated as you cannot take up that much room. Mine also were out of round, but he didn't say how much.
I like you do consider it a fail to have the oil issues, so for me it isn't a question to buy the new parts. I just figured I would give you a possible option. I wouldn't like knowing I rebuilt an engine and it is 1/2 worn out already, when just another 500.-- or so would have made it new. Good luck.

6.3mm is 1/4"

i hope your machinist is not saying that you have that much bore clearance..

are you sure he didnt mean .6mm?? that would make ALOT more sense..

i dont know of anywhere in these VW engines where there is 1/4" of clearance between 2 parts..

[CrazyAndy]

I am in the same spot now with the 1.6 I have. The old machinist said it was at 2.0-2.5mm when I checked them this winter. New guy says 6mm, so I am buying klobenshmidt and having them coated as you cannot take up that much room. Mine also were out of round, but he didn't say how much.
I like you do consider it a fail to have the oil issues, so for me it isn't a question to buy the new parts. I just figured I would give you a possible option. I wouldn't like knowing I rebuilt an engine and it is 1/2 worn out already, when just another 500.-- or so would have made it new. Good luck.

Like R.O.R. said I think you're off a decimal point or two.  If not, pics for epic block wear. 

And I just remembered I forgot to mention in my original bore numbers post that the machinist DID torque the main caps for the overbore.  I'm 75-99% sure now that may be the reason for the minuscule out-of-round in some areas, but I posted it just to see what others thought.  I talked to my and veteran tech coworker today, and he says that since those measurements are A) taken without the caps torqued and B) are in the magnitudes of micrometers,  such measurements are negligible pre-break in.  I'm inclined to believe him, since he's been wrenching on VWs since the phrase "Volkswagen Radiator" was a parts counter joke. 

Fixing the ring gap situation takes center stage along with the piston coating.  Like I mentioned I'm running low on build cash, and if the method of tweaked rings and coated pistons brings everything into line, then I can handle it.  The biggest proponent of oil consumption will be those ring gaps and having to spend more on another re-bore, new piston set and more rings is a lot more compared to rings and coating.

Time to be patient and see what will and won't work.  I'm calmed down about all this now, so steady as she goes.

And CRS, I haven't even touched the head yet.  I'll get the bottom end sorted out first before anything else.

[CrazyAndy]

Sorry to double post, but some pretty good news (as opposed to prgress).  My machinist says he will be able to spray weld the crank nose and be able to re-cut the sprocket D cut.  Wish he didn't have such a back log though, might be waiting a few weeks for that.  At least I don't have to spend bread on finding and aquiring another crank though.

Also solved the problem of a missing turbo by buying another.

As you can see it's a T3; thanks to sdubfid for the buy and theman53/trev0rbr for pushing me toward it.  Probably gonna dig around pick n' pulls for a Volvo cold side before sending to rebuilders.

And the gears below that are my 0.681 5th gear swap I'm gonna be doing. 2675rpm @ 70mph, here I come!

P.S.: Found where the K24 ended up, in the north sydney undeliverable mail office.    Oh well, at least I can get it back in 30-45 days by submitting a return claim investigation through USPS . . .who talk to CP . . . . who confirm w/ USPS . . . . blah blah blah.

[RabbitJockey]

Mike, you're looking for the turbo from a 740 or 760 I think.  From mid to late 80s. That's a 50 trim,  if u can't find that,  then the t3 turbo from a Saab turbo dodge or Mercedes will work too.  The best is the 90s t3 from Mercedes diesels but they are extremely hard to find and usually cost more than its worth to rebuild IMO because by the Time you're done spending money you might as well have bought a brand new gt series turbo or turbonetics t3.  But damn that t3 u bought looks clean.  U might want to just ask that xs place perhaps they could sell u a bigger compressor wheel and machine out ur housing for a decent proce