Building AAZ motor; meet Harley

[CrazyAndy]

Hey all.

I know I haven't been a member on this forum for a while or had anything notable to contribute yet, but I could use some help.  I am in the middle of building an AAZ for my 1981 Rabbit, and am finding that the farther I go, the more I realize I'm not completely sure where to take this. 

What I have so far
1.Already machined crank for TDI sprocket.  Statically balanced as well (machinist said he'd throw that in).
2.Engine bored 0.5mm over, appropriate pistons (manufacturer is ARCO); will get gapless 2nd-ring Total Seal ring set.
3.Stock rods.
4.AAZ pump (will fine PN if helps)
5.Will be getting studs for everything (head, mains, rods).
6. Unmodified intermediate shaft(IDK, just putting it out there).
7. PD130 intake
8. Will be mated to CTN 02A trans for superior highway gearing; 228mm F.W.

Now here are the unecided variables
1. Cyl head; 1.6 hydro TD or AAZ?
2. Turbo; would like to run in a range of 17-24 psi, quick spool time preferable (can run EWG as means to this end)?
3. Injectors; stock or GTD nozzles(read that it's not much difference, but still just asking)?
4. I.P. tuning (Yes, I know of Giles of Performance Diesel, but does he/I need to know anything)?
5. Just, anything else a newb can forget or doesn't know?

I'd like to see at least 140 HP and 250 Ft-Lbs.  Now I know that it's quite an open and generalized request that I am putting out, but I don't have much to go on.  This will be the first engine I have ever built.  There is ABSOLUTELY NO local VW scene much less any diesels, so I can't get a ride an a car with comparable numbers to my goals to see if It's what I should do (will be my DD BTW).  And around here if the words Duramax Powerstroke and Cummins aren't heard, then the local diesel enthusiasts aren't listening.  I'd just like to talk about the possibility and feasibility of my power goals as well as narrowing down some of my rogue variables.  Sorry if this has been asked a million times before; don't have much time between 2 jobs to even post, let alone scour the forums' massive backlog of data.

Please help; I've bugged CRSMP5 enough about stuff, and I dont wanna make him angry.  Now all his answers boil down to "vwdiesel.net, now GTFO" 

[theman53]

I would only run the aaz head on that. You may end up with way too much compression using a 1.6 head. Valves are bigger in the aaz too. Don't know about your torque numbers but the HP ones should be fairly easy to attain. If you use the arco pistons replace the rings for security sake. I would run a K24 off the old 1.6 TD's as the 1.9 should spool it even better and it will work well for your power numbers.

[CrazyAndy]

I would only run the aaz head on that. You may end up with way too much compression using a 1.6 head. Valves are bigger in the aaz too. Don't know about your torque numbers but the HP ones should be fairly easy to attain. If you use the arco pistons replace the rings for security sake. I would run a K24 off the old 1.6 TD's as the 1.9 should spool it even better and it will work well for your power numbers.

Thanks, didn't know about the AAZ valve size; thought the 1.6 and 1.9 were the same in theat respect.  It also would mean I don't have to port-match the PD130 manifold.

I forgot to say that I'll be getting 2nd-ring gapless set of Total Seals for this motor.  Thanks for reminding me; updated the OP.

K24 is on my mind as well; I know it has quick spool, but can it hold around 20 psi?  Also are there any external wastegate models?  I can weld the IWG shut anyway, so it's not really as much a requirement as it would be a good-to-have.

[JamesT]

AAZ head. Bigger ports, and it was made for the engine.
k03 if you want super fast spool, but I think the k14 is a good balance (mine does 20psi at 2200rpm, hits 10 lbs bellow 1800rpm). I've heard you don't want the k03 pushing over 20 psi for very long.
Stock nozzles should be able to get you near your desired power.
I've heard nothing but good things about Giles. If you want your pump done up, he'd be the way to go. You might want to try running the stock AAZ pump with a 1.6TD boost pin and see what that does for you though. Or just turn the smoke screw until it won't idle for you and you'll be rollin'.
Intercooler would be a great asset at higher boost levels for keeping EGT's low and power output high. You'll want some way to monitor exhaust temps and boost pressure. Also, because you're putting a heavier engine with more torque into a mk1, you'll want to do some extra bracing around the front motor mount and the control arm ends. Obviously, if you're using an O2A, you'll be running 16v spindles for the larger CV's, so you'll have bigger brakes.

[R.O.R-2.0]

I would only run the aaz head on that. You may end up with way too much compression using a 1.6 head. Valves are bigger in the aaz too. Don't know about your torque numbers but the HP ones should be fairly easy to attain. If you use the arco pistons replace the rings for security sake. I would run a K24 off the old 1.6 TD's as the 1.9 should spool it even better and it will work well for your power numbers.

Thanks, didn't know about the AAZ valve size; thought the 1.6 and 1.9 were the same in theat respect.  It also would mean I don't have to port-match the PD130 manifold.

I forgot to say that I'll be getting 2nd-ring gapless set of Total Seals for this motor.  Thanks for reminding me; updated the OP.

K24 is on my mind as well; I know it has quick spool, but can it hold around 20 psi?  Also are there any external wastegate models?  I can weld the IWG shut anyway, so it's not really as much a requirement as it would be a good-to-have.

didnt know they had a gapless second ring set for these engines now.. good to know.

and the K24s only came with internal gates.. the K26 came in non wastegate models tho.. yes, a K24 will make 25psi easy..

why do you feel it necessary for an external wastegate?

[CrazyAndy]

didnt know they had a gapless second ring set for these engines now.. good to know.

and the K24s only came with internal gates.. the K26 came in non wastegate models tho.. yes, a K24 will make 25psi easy..

why do you feel it necessary for an external wastegate?

I have one laying around and just thought that it might help with spool times.  I know it's kinda pennies on the dollar, but like I said I have it laying around.  Honestly it sounds like it won't do much with how you phrased the question; I don't mind an internal WG, sorry if I sounded slanted.

And JamesT the reason I'd just send the pump to Giles is because I have no idea as to the history of this pump.  I bought it from somebody on the 'Tex who had this for a projet but gave up and let it sit.  Don't know if the pump leaks or is internally okay, and just being able to put a rebuilt Giles-ified pump on would be peace of mind.  Wanna make Mk1 Madness, so would rather work with knowns than unknowns.  I'll remember the GTD boost pin thing, though.

I'll also be getting an Aircraft Spruce pyrometer mounted forward of the turbine housing in the manifold, just behind the flange.  Boost gauge will be added to the dash with the EGT gauge; would never think of running a modded TD without these.

K24 sounds like the way to go, with ability to turn the boost up 5 or 6 psi in the future if I wanted to.  Now, to scour the FS threads . .

[theman53]

If you get a Giles pump he will have a custom pin installed which will do more than the GTD pin. And yes definately you will be able to turn up the K24 as I ran mine for 40,000 miles with the boost set around 17-25 depending on the stage of the engine's life, most of the time it was 20+. It will be fine. There is a tutorial on how to lap the valve of the wastegate so you aren't loosing boost without the valve even being opened. IIRC it was an old thread circa 2004 ish by Jake'sgtd or jerrys or something. If the vavle is all carboned up you could block the wastegate and still loose boost since the valve isn't seating.

Just food for thought.

[CrazyAndy]

I found a reposter version of what you are talking about, pics don't work though:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=13357.0

But thanks for mentioning that!  That's why I started this thread in the first place; people here have such great ideas.

Anything I should know about the exhaust manifold for this turbo?

EDIT: Are you sure about needing 16V 'rocco spindles and brakes for the 100mm axles?  I was told that the 100mm 'rocco axles would fit in the Rabbit knucle/spindle assembly, just would need some clearancing around the back so the 10mm outer CVs wouldnt bind on the inner knuckle.

[JamesT]

EDIT: Are you sure about needing 16V 'rocco spindles and brakes for the 100mm axles?  I was told that the 100mm 'rocco axles would fit in the Rabbit knucle/spindle assembly, just would need some clearancing around the back so the 10mm outer CVs wouldnt bind on the inner knuckle.

You can clearance. It's been covered many times. But, you're talking about building a kick-a$$ car, and I figured you may as well do it up. The 16v knuckles have more meat on them, and would be a bolt in. I may have started to get a little out of hand with my post.

[Smokey Eddy]

Now here are the unecided variables
1. Cyl head; 1.6 hydro TD or AAZ?
2. Turbo; would like to run in a range of 17-24 psi, quick spool time preferable (can run EWG as means to this end)?
3. Injectors; stock or GTD nozzles(read that it's not much difference, but still just asking)?
4. I.P. tuning (Yes, I know of Giles of Performance Diesel, but does he/I need to know anything)?
5. Just, anything else a newb can forget or doesn't know?

Definitely keep the AAZ head. But port it and take down the lips on the runners.
My Garret T3 does 25psi in just a couple seconds in the right gears (gears that work well) with new seals and junk on it it works great.
Stock injectors and nozzles flow plently of diesel. Just make sure they aren't too worn or else they dont atomize worth crap!
Giles is insanely expensive. I've managed to get the numbers and performance i want without spending $1,000. In fact, I'd say if you include the cost of a screw driver and something i made a shim out of as free it didn't cost me anything. But while I had the pump apart I did replace some seals. 8v-of-fury has a great mod in his signature.
as for question #5
You will need to intercool the charge air on this or else the engine will melt. You will also need to make a free flowing exhaust. I use 2.5 inch ID pipe that splits under the rear seats and comes out infront of the back tires.
I would also recommend monitoring equipment for all your junk.
EGT(Vital), boost (as im sure you would want anyways), oil pressure (IMPORTANT), oil temp (ALMOST AS IMPORTANT), water temp if you want to be fussy and while you're at it knowing what voltage you're seeing isn't bad either.
 
As is such the case with any combustion engine its all about getting fuel & air in and exhaust out as easily as posssible.

If there are restrictions and you're throwing lots of fuel down it's throat you will run into expensive and likely project ending conciquences.
I hope everything works well for you but be prepared to spend a lot of time on it ... if you don't have time to cruise the forum this is going to be VERY expensive for you for something that for the same price could have been a lot "better". I like my diesel because I don't need specialized equipment and I can fix it my self with a little bit of time invested. But I have that time to invest... Just food for thought.

[CrazyAndy]

Yeah I have a FMIC for this thing already, and I'll run a 2.5" exhaust system on principle.  You can't get it in if you can't get it out.  Didn't think of the oil pressure and temp gauges, I'll see about them.

And yeah, you do make a good case for giving the less-expensive DIY option before anything else; if it works then that's good savings, and at least I can blame only myself it if fudges up.

Finally getting back to the subject of axles, I have done some research and some vortex users have said that the EMPI axles for the 16v 'rocco will work out of the box, being already clearanced for the Rabbit's steeper inner spindle cup and thicker bearing circlip.  I will be putting vented GTI brake assemblies in the front to help with the new dirvetrain's extra weight.

 

[R.O.R-2.0]

empi axles are junk tho..

[CRSMP5]

if/when you tighten the axles nuts... 200ft-lbs btw.. if it locks the wheel it will be the true test... just be prepaired to do some grinding.. less then 5 min per axle to grind them.. 15-30 per spindel.. i ended up just hitting my axles on the bench.. i did new wheel bearings and all.. so could have done either way..

[CrazyAndy]

In that case, I'll just get some 'rocco axles from a beter source than EMPI, and just clearance them off-car;  the driver side bearing is crapping the bed anyway.

And decided on K24 turbo; WTB anyone who has one w/ mani.

[R.O.R-2.0]

In that case, I'll just get some 'rocco axles from a beter source than EMPI, and just clearance them off-car;  the driver side bearing is crapping the bed anyway.

And decided on K24 turbo; WTB anyone who has one w/ mani.

catlin has an almost full swap for like 250 bucks.. w/ k24 & mani included.