Franken motor!

[Benjamin]

Hello,

just to came back to the dual spring nozzles, by keeping in mind which time we have at 6000rpm to inject and burn the fuel, for produce power from the burning and not only burn the turbo, in my mind the dual spring injectors are not the one we wand.  (time compl. approx 0,005s, burn delay approx 0,001s )

@ TinTin,

i am sure that there is no possibility to get 200hp from a 1.6 idi engine at lower speed than 5500rpm. Even it were possible, the mechanical stress will increase and reduce reliable of the power train.


@saurkraut

there is no rule to calculate it easy.
I have make a little design program for idi engine with excel, where i can calculate the combustion pressure durin the injection.
At stock and 5500rpm with 0.8 bar boost, it will be approx 120 bar.
At 6000 rpm with 1.8 bar boost and good intercooling, it will be approx 183 bar. So to have the same pressure drop over the injector, the pop pressure should be adjusted to (155+63) approx 220bar. But for staying able to inject the neccesary amount of fuel, i think the 220bar will be to high, so in my feeling approx 180 bar pop pressure should be a good value.


Best Regards

There is actualy more than you think Alleslowbuged, there do run a vw 1.6 with 254whp and peak power around 4000rpm. The stress is lower on the internals when the powerpeak is lower in rpm, alltough, you have right if you mean the torque should be higher if it spooled up faster.

alltough 200whp is possible with vnt, the bad thing about VNT is the backpressure what eats a lot of power, a ballbearing should be the best solution, but also the most expensive, well done you are almost making 200whp, cuz its easy to say, but who realy did it, till now i didnt... i think there are several turbos tried wich where just to lagy.

take also in mind, higher pop pressure means also more power on the shaft, what is no problem for a 9mm, but it is a problem for 12mm, another thing to think about is, higher pop pressure means you reduce the power cuz making more pressure takes more power...
My friend have increased the pop pressure, and he say the difrence is the turbo spools better, and reduced smoke when its spooling up, at peakpower its all about the same.

Greetz, Benjamin

[MJF]

i am sure that there is no possibility to get 200hp from a 1.6 idi engine at lower speed than 5500rpm. Even it were possible, the mechanical stress will increase and reduce reliable of the power train.

My engine peaks at 223hp@~4700. Thatīs with vnt and backpressure is lower than boost. 1,6 mech head and stock 1,6 injectors.

[Alleslowbuged]

Hello,

@Benjamin and MJF

sorry for my unknowledge, i am really impressed to hear that here are serveral 1.6 VW idi engine's with more than 200 whp, even at 4000 or which speed ever. Respect for your build up.

Can i see somewhere more details of your engines? As mention before i
still in the bulid up phase of a 1.9 aaz and will be very happy to see what is necessary to get these high hp level.

Best regards

[MJF]

My build is several times here in forum. Best I know from unopened aaz (internally stock) is ~220hp/450nm. Donīt know what turbo is in that aaz. Donīt know exact specs for that 254hp/513nm 1.6 either, but Iīve seen the dynosheet...

EDIT: Found the dynosheet for aaz

[carrizog60]

can you post it?
would like to see a 1.6 do all that torque :twisted:

[MJF]

Nope, owner doesnīt want to show it in internet (Iīve asked)

[Benjamin]

My engine peaks at 223hp@~4700. Thatīs with vnt and backpressure is lower than boost. 1,6 mech head and stock 1,6 injectors.

I ever read you can flow the vanes, did you done some improvements to the interal turbo, or is it just rotated and another vnt controller on?

Greetz, Benjamin

[MJF]

I ever read you can flow the vanes, did you done some improvements to the interal turbo, or is it just rotated and another vnt controller on?

Greetz, Benjamin

Stock turbo, no internal mods. I swapped the MB electronic control to single boost can. Not the best way, but works ok in this case.

[andy2]

MJF your using a vnt 25?? at __psi with 42.5mm inducer?? and Dave's monster turbo is running a 54mm inducer at 35psi.Thats a huge difference I know my 1.9 needs a bigger compresor than 42.5 to make anything over 30 psi/200hp.My primary turbo will have either a 52 or 54mm inducer and my small turbo has a 42.5mm which similar flow to a vnt25 compressor.

[MJF]

MJF your using a vnt 25?? at __psi with 42.5mm inducer?? and Dave's monster turbo is running a 54mm inducer at 35psi.Thats a huge difference I know my 1.9 needs a bigger compresor than 42.5 to make anything over 30 psi/200hp.My primary turbo will have either a 52 or 54mm inducer and my small turbo has a 42.5mm which similar flow to a vnt25 compressor.

Itīs GT2359V, ~47mm inducer with ~35psi boost. I know Iīm pushing the turbo way over limits, but the engine needs boost to make power :?

[andy2]

I see,Well thats sounds about right.What were you torque #'s ?

What cam plate are you using Dave?I think a 1.6 cam plate with 12 or 14mm head will work better for 5500 +rpm.The extra 1mm lift with the 1.9 camplate may not be neccesary with the bigger head.

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

Hey Dave

I have proven on my Test Stand that if you feed the injection pump with
more than a positive feed then it will increase the dynamic flow of the pump

if you decrease you static timing a bit to compensate for the increased
internal pressure which will give you more advance earlier on.

what static timing do you have it set at now?

hope this helps you get over 200
try 15 psi first

Giles

[burnt_servo]

Hey Dave

I have proven on my Test Stand that if you feed the injection pump with
more than a positive feed then it will increase the dynamic flow of the pump

if you decrease you static timing a bit to compensate for the increased
internal pressure which will give you more advance earlier on.

what static timing do you have it set at now?

hope this helps you get over 200
try 15 psi first

Giles

are you talking about feeding 15 psi fuel pressure into the injection pump ?
i'm just waking up if this seems very obvious .


something else i was wondering  , at high rpm's does the pump start to cavitate ?  if so , it might be another cause for running out of fuel .

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

hi guys

no the internal 4 vane feed pump inside the VE is very strong and will
not cavitate.

yes if you feed your pump (any pump) with more inlet pressure
it will to a certain extent give you more output.

Giles

[subsonic]

Giles, could you give some insight into the questions about the 1.9 dual spring injector bodies and the pre injection that happens before the main injection? What if any effect do you think this would have on this particular application.