-
#30
by
Turbinepowered
on 20 May, 2010 06:53
-
My question (Being a CN engine owner) is where are you getting the headgasket? I need one...
Do you mean an MLS gasket, or just a regular fiber gasket? I have a 2 and 3 hole fiber if you need one. If you're taking about the MLS gasket, your best bet is to use one from the AAB engine. I can post up pictures of the regular DE fiber, the AAB fiber, and an AAB MLS gasket for comparison if you want.
An MLS gasket would be fantastic. Who are you buying from, someone in Canada?
-
#31
by
lord_verminaard
on 20 May, 2010 12:08
-
The resistance you are feeling is probably from the injection pump, there is a pretty significant "click" when it's on a pressure stroke, even without any fuel in it. That would make sense if it is happening 5 times per rotation.
Just a guess....
Brendan
-
#32
by
Smokey Eddy
on 20 May, 2010 12:45
-
I think i figured out the difficulty to turn issue.
it's because there is a point in a normal rotation of an inline engine like these where there is a mechanical ... im going to call it dead spot?
where for part of the con rods trip around the crank there is a tough spot, mechanically. It's where the rod has the least amount of torque to push the piston head up or pull it down so for example...
TDC or bottom dead centre? where the con rod is at it's lowest point and has to come out of that 0 degree spot to then have a little bit of mechanical advantage to move the piston up or down!!!!
-
#33
by
rabbid79
on 21 May, 2010 00:00
-
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately, it's not the FI pump because it's not connected. I like the idea of the "deat spot", where there's a lot of friction keeping things from moving. I'm not sure if that's it though because it "hits" all of a sudden. It doesn't build up. Just the same, I removed the spark plugs from the old engine to check for a similar occurrence, but didn't feel anything like it. Granted, the old engine has 80K miles on it and is thoroughly broken in. It is also smaller in displacement with completely different internal dimensions. It's still a 5-cyl. though, so it was worth a try.
I've heard this on this forum before, and a friend suggested it too; maybe setting TDC using a dial indicator isn't such a great idea. Maybe I do have the timing screwed up. I'm going to purchase a little mirror tomorrow, and if I don't see anything obvious going on behind the scenes, I'll pull the cam and see if the problem goes away.
Worst case scenario is I'll have to wait until the engine is in the car to set the timing with the proper timing marks on the flywheel. I have to wait until it's in the car to torque the large front sprocket bolt anyway (250 ft/lbs WITH an additional torque wrench extension specially designed for these engines). No way to safely torque that sucker without the engine in the car.
-
#34
by
lord_verminaard
on 21 May, 2010 06:58
-
How do you have it timed without the IP hooked up? Or am I missing something obvious?
Yeah, that front crank bolt scares me. I'm not sure how I'm going to remove it when I do my 20v timing belt. 335 ft-lbs with locking compound?!?!?
Brendan
-
#35
by
Turbinepowered
on 21 May, 2010 07:17
-
I had a very similar sensation when I bench retimed my 1.5D. Turned out I was a tooth (maybe more, it was some time ago) off on the crank... which was apparently enough to ever so lightly love-tap the valves to the piston face.
-
#36
by
theman53
on 21 May, 2010 07:51
-
It looks like to me the IP was driven off the other side of the cam.
-
#37
by
rabbid79
on 21 May, 2010 08:31
-
How do you have it timed without the IP hooked up? Or am I missing something obvious?
It looks like to me the IP was driven off the other side of the cam.
That's correct. I'm only setting the crank/cam timing, not the injection pump timing.
I had a very similar sensation when I bench retimed my 1.5D. Turned out I was a tooth (maybe more, it was some time ago) off on the crank... which was apparently enough to ever so lightly love-tap the valves to the piston face.
Hopefully that's the same problem I'm having.
-
#38
by
lord_verminaard
on 22 May, 2010 06:27
-
How do you have it timed without the IP hooked up? Or am I missing something obvious?
It looks like to me the IP was driven off the other side of the cam.
That's correct. I'm only setting the crank/cam timing, not the injection pump timing.
Ah, Volvo style. Duh. Sorry about that.
Brendan
-
#39
by
burn_your_money
on 22 May, 2010 07:06
-
What method did you use for setting TDC with the dial indicator?
-
#40
by
rabbid79
on 22 May, 2010 13:04
-
What method did you use for setting TDC with the dial indicator?
It wasn't terribly scientific. Just before I installed the head, I positioned the dial indicator on the very center of the piston. Then turned it CCW past TDC, then turned it CW slowly to TDC and watched the needle rise until it stopped and then went the other direction. I then set the dial on the gauge to "0" at the position where it looked like it had been stopping. I repeated the process several times until I was sure I knew exactly when the needle stopped moving, and then set the crank to exactly that position.
You can see in the picture of the cylinders on page 2 where the #1 piston is at "TDC". I also measured piston protrusion at this point and it was 0.66mm, which is the farthest I could ever get it to protrude out of the cylinder.
-
#41
by
burn_your_money
on 22 May, 2010 19:12
-
You likely have it timed a tooth off then. There is a considerable amount of degrees at TDC and DBC where the piston is not moving but the crank is.
What you should do is flip your engine over and measure off the #2 or #3 piston BDC. I would measure 0.20mm on one side of the stroke and make a line and then 0.20mm on the other side and make a line. The exact center of those two lines is your TDC. If you are able to measure more then 0.20mm it would likely be more accurate because the piston moves more per degree of rotation.
-
#42
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 25 May, 2010 10:16
-
How do you have it timed without the IP hooked up? Or am I missing something obvious?
It looks like to me the IP was driven off the other side of the cam.
That's correct. I'm only setting the crank/cam timing, not the injection pump timing.
Ah, Volvo style. Duh. Sorry about that.
Brendan
Audi style* volvos bought the engine from audi. so therefor, its audi style.
-
#43
by
Pat Dolan
on 25 May, 2010 20:05
-
Jeremy:
Sorry to have missed this thread, haven't been around for a while.
Before anything else, mark the crank position for each piston on your front pulley and THEN take a look at each valve position in that cylinder as it nears TDC (and also, at what degree of rotation each of the sticky spots are located. If there is a valve interference problem, the cam will be NEARLY closed when the event occurs in that cylinder. If they are NOT open, stop looking at cam intereference issues.
If they ARE in the right position, simply dissconnect the timing belt and remove the camshaft. IF it was a valve-to-piston issue, it won't be there anymore.
Just a note for Brendan: if it was an injection pump load, it would be 5 times every TWO turns, not per rotation.
Regarding your front pulley torque: wait until you have the flywheel installed and use the flywheel lock on your genuine VW engine stand. OK, so you don't have one of those so bolt a 4 foot piece of angle iron iron to two of the clutch holes in the flywheel and you can easily have someone hold the crank with it.
Pat
-
#44
by
rabbid79
on 25 May, 2010 23:35
-
Thanks for everyone's responses. It turns out that the engine was only at "Top MOSTLY-Dead Center", not "Top ALL-Dead Center". There's a big difference between MOSTLY dead and ALL dead. (
Princess Bride reference for those who are too young.) I removed the cam and the "hesitation" went away. Before I did that, I advance and retarted the timing 1 tooth, and the problem only got worse. Lesson learned. Don't set TDC this way unless you are desperate. And then if you do, make sure to turn it over by hand (which, of course, is always good advice any time you play with the timing), so you don't screw something up the first time you crank it.
Got the main studs and ARP2000 rod bolts installed. The rod bolts are from the Nissan 350Z application. (Thanks Dennis for figuring this out for me.) The bottom end should pretty much be bullet-proof now. Also installed the oil pickup tube and baffle. Should get the oil pan installed in the next few days, and then it will really start to look like an engine.
Pat, fortunately I have the tools for the crank bolt.
Unfortunately, this is the third time I've purchased them (don't tell my wife). Each time I tell myself that I'll never again own a 5-cylinder, and get rid of them. Lately I've gotton out of the habit of selling my tools though. However, I have considered renting them out. Since I have pretty much every tool the Bentley calls for for timing the 5 and 6-cylinder diesels, I might as well help somebody out, and make some money on the side.
