Author Topic: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build - Now with video!  (Read 57865 times)

April 17, 2010, 11:41:55 pm

rabbid79

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Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build - Now with video!
« on: April 17, 2010, 11:41:55 pm »
Hi everyone,

I thought I'd share my project with you.  I have been contemplating building a Quattro turbo diesel for a couple of years, and since the lease on my Subaru is up at the end of summer, I decided it's time to get moving.

I've been trying to decide between using a 2.0TD (engine code DE) that I have, or buying a 2.4D (engine code AAB) and turbo charging that.  I came across a factory remanufactured AAB with a new block, and jumped on it.  This engine was originally for the Eurovan (T4), so isn't a direct fit into a sedan application.  Fortunately, Audi did put a 2.4D (engine code 3D) into their European-only 100 sedans.  This engine is virtually identical to the AAB, so I was able to import certain parts, namely the valve cover and the rear coolant flange, to make the job a little easier.  The AAB in the Eurovan application also used the turbo oil return line hole in the block for the dipstick hole.  Since I'll be using this hole for the turbo, I needed to drill a new hole in the mounting boss on the other side of the block.  A friend suggested I bolt a piece of scrap metal to the under side of the block on my DE engine, and drill from the original dipstick hole into the scrap metal to make a jig.  Then just reverse the process to drill into the AAB block.  It worked perfectly.

I'm shooting for around 200 HP/325 ft./lbs., and feel pretty good about turbocharging the AAB, since it is very similar to the DE and the AAZ.  For starters, it has oil cooling jets under the pistons and the same exhaust valves as the AAZ.  It doesn't use the same pistons and rods as the AAZ, but another forum member purportedly ran AAB pistons in an application that exceeded 100 HP/L., so I'm not too worried about them.  The other upside to the AAB rods is that they're lighter than the AAZ rods (huge end caps), and should be able to turn a few more RPMs safely.  The AAB block itself has also been used in 20-Valve gas applications up to 1200 HP, so I'm not worried about the block either.  I'm doing all of the usual upgrades to help make reliable power (e.g. Giles pump, MLS head gasket, ARP fasteners, etc.)

Three of the exhaust stud holes came with time-serts.  Upon removing the studs to install stainless fasteners, I discovered a few more holes with bad threads, so I decided to repair all of the holes with time-serts.

If anyone is interested in my observations of what is replaced on a factory reman'd engine, I'd be happy to list the details.

I know you guys are into naked engines, so on to the pics.

Host vehicle - 1989 Audi 100 Quattro, 79K miles:





Stock engine as removed from crate:




Drilling new dipstick hole - 9.8mm drill bit from McMaster-Carr worked perfectly:





Installing new time-serts into exhaust stud holes:



Anyway, I hope to have the head back on this week, and possibly the old engine removed from the car next weekend.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 11:49:42 pm by rabbid79 »


'15 WRX
Parts for 2.0 TD build - Now looking for suitable car to put it in.

Reply #1April 18, 2010, 12:35:38 am

Vincent Waldon

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 12:35:38 am »

I know you guys are into naked engines

We are.... we are... keep 'em coming.

Will be very much looking forward to turbo fitment... got a brother with an AAB and it really really really needs help.  ;D ;D
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #2April 18, 2010, 02:02:51 am

blackdogvan

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 02:02:51 am »
Really looking forward to watching this build progress! Please keep the pics coming!!
1991 Vanagon 1.9 mTDI

Reply #3April 18, 2010, 02:29:13 am

Smokey Eddy

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 02:29:13 am »
OMG im SO SO SO happy about this.
I would LOVE a 5 cyl. That thing will be an interesting engine for sure. heaps of fun to drive once it's breathing fire.
Ed
Blacked out mk2 AAZ Jetta RIP. You will be are missed.
White 1999.5 ALH Golf 2dr. 2" wider. 2.5" lower.

Reply #4April 18, 2010, 09:58:19 am

GEE-BEE

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2010, 09:58:19 am »
Beautiful car...

What turbo ?
1.9 AAZ, CHD 5spd with Peloquin
KO4/KO3 Hybrid turbo
Giles Pump OHC
Complete Techtonics 2'5 S/S DP and Exhaust
Coilovers, MKII Pedal Swap,G60 BRAKES
MK1 JETTA DASH
675MM 16V radiator (MKII) PASSAT DUAL FAN
42K original miles , South African Front End
15x6 Le Casletts 195-45-15

Reply #5April 18, 2010, 02:05:11 pm

rabbid79

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2010, 02:05:11 pm »
Thanks for the encouragement.  I'm planning to use the stock K24 that comes with the DE engine.  It should be good for 20 lbs. or so.  Giles said the pump he built is capable of 250/400 at 30 lbs., but I don't plan on going that high.  One day I would like to build a Porsche 924 TD Bonneville racer, so it's good to know a big enough pump can be made.

The AAB is a "tall block" engine which is 16mm taller than the DE.  Therefore the DE turbo oil lines probably won't be long enough and I will need to have new ones made.

I haven't decided whether to use water/methanol injection, air/air intercooling, or both.  The intercooler install should be pretty straight forward since all of the turbo variants of these cars were intercooled.  The bigest problem with the factory intercooler is the crimped-on plastic end tanks.  I popped one of these off once on a modified 5000 TQ.  Granted, it was between a full boost 1-2 shift, and the car didn't have a pop-off valve.  Once the throttle body slammed shut, the air had nowhere to go.  Obviously, this won't be a problem on a diesel, so maybe the stock intercooler would be ok for a while.  For now I plan to route the air straight into the manifold like the DE engine does, and leave the boost set at the stock 10lbs.  After the engine is sorted out a bit, I'll crank up the boost and fuel.

Will also install boost and EGT gauges where the ash tray is, probably VDO "Vision" series which are very similar to stock gauges.  Snow performance also makes a version of their methanol injection controller that measures EGTs and boost.  I haven't decided which way to go for sure.  Once neat thing is I can use the large 5 liter factory windshield washer reservoir that is built into the front corner of the engine compartment for the methanal injection.  Then I can mount a smaller Audi 5000 windshield washer reservoir to the stock mounting flange on the firewall for the regular windshield washer.

Valve cover from European 3D engine - compare to stock AAB which has 3 studs for mounting long tube for oil filler cap:



Test fitting Giles pump, head studs, removing purple Hylomar-like sealant used from the factory:
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 02:58:19 pm by rabbid79 »
'15 WRX
Parts for 2.0 TD build - Now looking for suitable car to put it in.

Reply #6April 18, 2010, 02:42:02 pm

mystery3

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2010, 02:42:02 pm »
Was the IC you blew on the 5000 strapped? I was running 2.2 bar with no problems when I sold mine.

If this swap goes well you should shove an AAB into a coupe quattro.

Reply #7April 18, 2010, 04:14:35 pm

MJF

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2010, 04:14:35 pm »
Intresting build  8)

What gearing your Audi has? Usually quattro gearings are not that good for diesel :(  Im going to install 1,9TD in my b2 80q and will make C4 S4 5 speed 01E to fit. With that transmission, itll be [email protected] When I get rich, :lol: Ill get C4 6-speed TDI transmission, which is bolt on then.

My friend had a similar build than yours, but he went back to 2,2 20v ::) Fully rebuilt 3D engine is still in my garage waiting to be installed... The engine was first in 84 Passat, but that got stock DE and was sold.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 04:17:47 pm by MJF »
'74 VW Scirocco TD
'86 Audi 80q 1,9TDic
'01 Audi A6q 2,5TDI

Reply #8April 18, 2010, 04:55:34 pm

rabbid79

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2010, 04:55:34 pm »
Quote
Was the IC you blew on the 5000 strapped? I was running 2.2 bar with no problems when I sold mine.
No, not the one that blew.  Later I installed a Ben Swann chip and W/G spring into a FWD 5000 with slushbox and did strap the intercooler.  Only ran 1.8 bar absolute though, so no problems.  I may install a factory intercooler and strap it like you said.  If/when I go higher than 20 lbs, I'll probably upgrade to an all aluminum core from 2Bennett.


Quote
What gearing your Audi has? Usually quattro gearings are not that good for diesel
The gear ratios in my 01A box are abysmal. :(  It works out to 21.3 MPH per 1000 RPM in 5th gear on the 215/45-17s.  This car will be my daily driver, and the legal limit of any roads on my commute to work is 50 MPH, so it won't be too bad.  I plan to install a Spec stage 2 clutch.  This will be compatible with a 01E 6-speed if I ever decide to go that route.  I'm hoping someone will come out with a kit to make installing a 01E into a type-44 a bolt-in affair.  My other option is the tranny from a B3 80/90.  This transmission will give me 23.2 MPH/1000.  Still not great, but better.

How did the turbo'd 3D do in the Passat?  I really like those intake manifolds.  I'd like to get a hold of the little hose flange that mounts to the manifold, but unfortunately, they're NLA from Audi.  The best I can do is have one of the stock pipes machined to fit a hose to.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 07:11:36 pm by rabbid79 »
'15 WRX
Parts for 2.0 TD build - Now looking for suitable car to put it in.

Reply #9April 18, 2010, 05:03:44 pm

MJF

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2010, 05:03:44 pm »
It was never really boosted in Passat. ~1bar with tiny T3 Garret and it was dynoed ~135hp/290nm at wheels.
'74 VW Scirocco TD
'86 Audi 80q 1,9TDic
'01 Audi A6q 2,5TDI

Reply #10April 19, 2010, 06:54:32 pm

TPW

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 06:54:32 pm »
The power on this engine sounds great compared to the DE I have in by 5000 Quattro.  I would like to get a taller 5th gear for mine so maybe the car could get more than 40 mpg.  I tried to swap the 5th gearset from the 1980 transmission (.68) with the one in the quattro transmission (.73), but the inner diameter on the gear that went to the differentials was larger on the quattro. If anyone knows a good source for inexpensive gears, let us know.

My Motorgeek write-up left a few things out.  I left the fuel pump in the tank, but I drilled some holes in the check valve, so the IP could more easily pull the diesel fuel out of the tank.  I also used the air intake from the gas car, but modified it by plugging some holes and sawing off the fuel metering flap.

I had a custom 2 1/2" down pipe made that comes off of the turbo, so I tied that into the existing Quattro exhaust system.  Where the Cat was there is a splice so I can remove the back part of the exhaust system without unbolting the down pipe from the turbo.

I'm running 18 psi of boost, and haven't strapped my intercooler, But I did modify the intercooler so the bypass valve functioned properly.  Let me know if I can help.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 09:40:37 pm by TPW »

Reply #11April 19, 2010, 07:23:19 pm

MJF

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 07:23:19 pm »
Quote
I really like those intake manifolds.  I'd like to get a hold of the little hose flange that mounts to the manifold, but unfortunately, they're NLA from Audi.

Umm, what flange do you mean? The one that connects boost hose to manifold? Do you already have intake manifold? I have spare 2,0 turbo manifold with connecting flange. And stock 3D flange, the one in Passat is made of "billet".
'74 VW Scirocco TD
'86 Audi 80q 1,9TDic
'01 Audi A6q 2,5TDI

Reply #12April 19, 2010, 10:41:27 pm

rabbid79

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 10:41:27 pm »
Hey TPW, thanks for the advice.  I've been following your project on MG for a while now.  It's part of what inspired me to do mine.  What did you do about the fuel accumulator?  Did you bypass it?  Do you know if it gets in the way of the FI pump pulling fuel?

Quote
Umm, what flange do you mean? The one that connects boost hose to manifold?
Yes, that's the one.  I already have a DE manifold that I've reconditioned and gasket matched since the AAB intake ports are 2mm larger in each direction than the DE.  Thanks for the offer though.  Does the part of the 3D flange that connects to the manifold look like this?  If so, are you interested in selling it?  It might be cheaper and better than trying to have the flange in the picture machined.  What size intercooler hose does it fit?  Does it work with the stock "Michelin Man" hose?




Gasket matched manifold.  Didn't go too crazy here:



Oil pan from 20V 7A engine.  Has good baffling and windage tray.  Should also help dissipate heat:
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 10:43:48 pm by rabbid79 »
'15 WRX
Parts for 2.0 TD build - Now looking for suitable car to put it in.

Reply #13April 19, 2010, 11:20:22 pm

TPW

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2010, 11:20:22 pm »
I never did anything with the Fuel Accumulator, but I did remove the gasoline filter, and the way I drilled holes in the check valve bypasses the noise suppressor on top of the fuel pump.

Reply #14April 20, 2010, 07:37:34 am

TPW

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Re: Audi Quattro Turbo Diesel Build
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2010, 07:37:34 am »
Quote
Does the part of the 3D flange that connects to the manifold look like this?  If so, are you interested in selling it?  It might be cheaper and better than trying to have the flange in the picture machined.  What size intercooler hose does it fit?  Does it work with the stock "Michelin Man" hose?

You can take the throttle body off of a gas car and modify it to fit the diesel intake manifold, gut it, and plug the holes.  Then the MM hose can connect the IM to the intercooler.