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#15
by
libbydiesel
on 17 Oct, 2013 10:03
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As I mentioned in the other thread, the keyway is equally stressed by holding the sprocket or the crank. You are not reducing the stress on the keyway by holding the crank, you are just making your life more difficult. Easy proof is that the sprocket holder works on the cam for loosening and torquing.
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#16
by
EcoTX
on 17 Oct, 2013 21:39
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Oil pan off
Block of wood or two between the crank and block where the rod throw is so it binds works wonders for me
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#17
by
libbydiesel
on 17 Oct, 2013 21:53
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That works especially well for turning a 5 minute project into an hour and getting little bits of wood in your crankcase.
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#18
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 17 Oct, 2013 22:34
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That works especially well for turning a 5 minute project into an hour and getting little bits of wood in your crankcase.
and perhaps lifting car some, there by negating some of the torque applied. if your on jacks (and/or stands) you may lift car off platform some, and press crank at same time.
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#19
by
Toby
on 18 Oct, 2013 01:23
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You guys have way to much time on your hands.The key is not to carry the load, it is only for alignment purposes. It is the friction between the nose of the crank and the sprocket. (Piss poor design) That is the reason for such a great amount of torque on the bolt. If the key shears, it is because the bolt was not tight enough. If you are worried about the bolt coming loose, just put some red Locktite on it. This is almost never a problem until someone removes the bolt. It is exceedingly important the the sprocket go back on COMPLETELY clean and oil free or you run the risk it slipping.
If you think about it, the forces on the sprocket are not that great, so this should not be much of an issue if done correctly. You just can't do it in a sandbox with filthy hands and no way hold the crank, and guestimating what the correct torque is..
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#20
by
TylerDurden
on 18 Oct, 2013 05:23
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If you think about it, the forces on the sprocket are not that great, so this should not be much of an issue if done correctly.
If you think about it, the crank sprocket is being torqued severely between the intermittent crank pulses and the loads/momentum of the cam, IM shaft, IP, balancer, waterpump, AC compressor, PS pump and alternator. So much so, that VW went to the clutched alt-pulley to reduce the slamming effect.
I will never subscribe to the theory that the clamping action of the crank bolt is the primary force holding the sprocket position.
The bolt ensures the key doesn't move, the key being the primary means of holding the sprocket in position. A real key rarely wallows out, the jakey key on the later 1.6 was a very poor idea.
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#21
by
libbydiesel
on 18 Oct, 2013 09:57
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Red Locktite on the crank bolt is a TERRIBLE IDEA, almost as bad as super-gluing on your underwear. WRT guestimating the torque, Toby, weren't you the one suggesting to install the crank sprocket bolt with an impact not too long ago...
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#22
by
RabbitJockey
on 18 Oct, 2013 10:49
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Red Locktite on the crank bolt is a TERRIBLE IDEA, almost as bad as super-gluing on your underwear. WRT guestimating the torque, Toby, weren't you the one suggesting to install the crank sprocket bolt with an impact not too long ago...
thats for damn sure they're already difficult enough to get off.
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#23
by
libbydiesel
on 18 Oct, 2013 11:06
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The crank bolts or your small clothes?
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#24
by
theman53
on 18 Oct, 2013 12:45
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Both probably
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#25
by
745 turbogreasel
on 18 Oct, 2013 18:29
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I will never subscribe to the theory that the clamping action of the crank bolt is the primary force holding the sprocket position.
Technically it is the friction, not the clamping.
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#26
by
mzak88
on 18 Oct, 2013 19:06
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I don't mind using red... Millwright thing. If problem getting off I apply heat carefully to BOLT, let sit for a while. it will come loose, no problem.
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#27
by
bbob203
on 18 Oct, 2013 19:20
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I've never had any problem loosening them quite frankly it always seemed easier than people made it out to be. Only time I've ever done it though the engines where out of the car.
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#28
by
libbydiesel
on 18 Oct, 2013 19:39
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I don't mind using red... Millwright thing. If problem getting off I apply heat carefully to BOLT, let sit for a while. it will come loose, no problem.
Ha ha. Yeah if you know it's there. Ever sold a car to someone? That poor sucker broke his flywheel ring gear trying to get that bolt loose after you stuck red on it
for no good reason...
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#29
by
TylerDurden
on 18 Oct, 2013 22:17
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Technically it is the friction, not the clamping.
Rubbish.
There ain't sufficient surface area to hold a gnat's nutz. The underside of the bolt is about the same size and it turns with a measly 150ftlb.
The
IP key is just for alignment, it has a taper shaft with 4x the surface area of the crank nose and 1/8 the inertial load. Likewise with the camshaft, and it proves the IP doesn't need the key for holding in position.