the hillfolk tdi-m returns,but i need some turbo help

[RabbitGTDguy]

I'm not sure what turbo the 1.6s came with, but you should be able to find a map somewhere.

at 40psi, it's definitely not doing anything.  It gets to a point where it's just blowing hot air, it stops flowing any more air and just starts heating the air it is flowing.

here's the map for the VNT15 that comes on TDIs, which is what I have, I've actually calculated that it can take 21psi, plenty for me, but definitely more than the 17psi everyone says.

but definitely not enough for you, but will give an idea of a small OE turbo and how little it really flows.

map is in kg/min not lb/min, so flow looks tiny, but it's actually about double what the map says.

ezekiel's posts really sum up alot of good points when it comes to choosing the correct 'charger for the engine, etc. Very important things to look at! I'd never run the 1.6 TD t3's on my setup because of their inefficiencies up in the higher RPM's, especially when you start talking 25+psi of boost or so where they really just start pumping hot air vs. cooler air. There is a trade off to be had there. They spool so great, but will eventually loose their breath as well. Its in part why I went to the merc .42 .48 50 trim compressor intially on the mTDI in my MK1. Notice how I said initially Its a temp setup as it isn't a super efficient turbo but does offer the compromise that I was in particular looking for. I can't say for sure when it really starts spooling at the moment (see other thread, getting a Dakota Digital tach convertor as I'm having issues with the optical setup and the old style tach...)but its not too late. Also, fueling has to do with it as well since I've only got the Sprint 216's in at the moment. I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a holset and try it out on my setup with R520s and the intercooling that I have setup. I think it'd be fun, but again, there is some "hybrid" work to do to make things work very nicely...hmm, maybe this winter! Also considering a GT series unit possibly as well.

Its where the VNT makes things so nice...the benefits of the smaller A/R turbo in the low end with the benefits of still being able to breath by adjusting the A/R to be larger in the higher end. Its so beautiful! I only wish there where more simpler ways to provide accurate control for the VNT mechanically. For instance, I've seen a couple mechanical linkage variations that are excellent...but they wouldn't clear my intake manifold arrangment.  On the vac. side of things, "good" and "accurate" vac. control hasn't been tried, tested and "trued" mechanically to my liking yet either (I remember Jake's post about the VNT 15 on his dads IDI TD).

I can see what you mean in a world of SOOOO many options when it comes to turbos how and what is the best too choose. I still say that if one could have the slightly larger A/R hot side...say .42-.48 and a slightly larger compressor side... .48-.52 , it'd be a nice setup that doesn't sacrifice low end power/spooling but still breathes efficiently higher up in the boost range.

In the end it does come down to some simple things though. Eventually..any unit as mentioned will just start producing hot air...and then you've defeated your purpose of using a "compressor" in the first place. A good intercooler setup with the water injection would go a hell of a long way if you wanted to do it...especially in the EGT realm I imagine too! If the intake temperature sensor/gauge setups weren't so expensive at the moment, I'd get one and test to see how much my setup will change in the next week or so here...

The search for the "best" turbo continues...think it all depends on what your goals are and where you are willing to make your sacrifices...

Hmm...this is where that old topic of "clutched supercharger w/ turbocharger" comes in interesting...

Joe

[745 turbogreasel]

United States Patent 5218822
Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5218822.html
Abstract:
The compressor for a turbocharger includes an assist system to provide a power stream of a driving fluid such as air to act on the impeller of the compressor until the driving power of the exhaust gases from an internal combustion engine are sufficient to drive the impeller. The compressor includes a housing forming a compression chamber in which the impeller is rotatably disposed. The impeller has a floor with a plurality of blades projecting from the floor. A plenum surrounds the housing and is connected to a source of pressurized air for supplying air to the compression chamber to drive the impeller. An aperture is provided through the housing for each blade and communicates the air from the plenum to the compression chamber and against the blades. The axis of the aperture is coincident with a line extending from the lower outer radial edge of the blade adjacent the floor to the point at which the air jet from the aperture impinges upon the next successive blade

Your AC compressor should be able to store enough between passes right?[/code]

[lord_verminaard]

Blake!  Good to see you still around!  So are you in NY for good or back in OH?  (looking at your profile)

I cant help but giggle like a schoolgirl looking at pics of your setup.  

Maybe try a Holset H1C turbine housing on your current compressor housing?  Dunno if they'd fit together, but the H1C I think is a little smaller still, plus it's non-wastegated.  

I've looked and looked at compressor maps until I'm blue in the face and it's hard to find something that works for M-TDI's in the high hp/boost range.  I still plan on the super/turbo combo on mine eventually.   But I've got so much other crap going on right now I have no time to wrench and no money to get parts!!!

From the multitude of blown T3's you have had, do you happen to have any of the wastegate "valves" from any of those?  Mine is fokked.  

Good luck!

Brendan

[hillfolk'r]

Blake!  Good to see you still around!  So are you in NY for good or back in OH?  (looking at your profile)

I cant help but giggle like a schoolgirl looking at pics of your setup.  

Maybe try a Holset H1C turbine housing on your current compressor housing?  Dunno if they'd fit together, but the H1C I think is a little smaller still, plus it's non-wastegated.  

I've looked and looked at compressor maps until I'm blue in the face and it's hard to find something that works for M-TDI's in the high hp/boost range.  I still plan on the super/turbo combo on mine eventually.   But I've got so much other crap going on right now I have no time to wrench and no money to get parts!!!

From the multitude of blown T3's you have had, do you happen to have any of the wastegate "valves" from any of those?  Mine is fokked.  

Good luck!

Brendan

aah shoot,well actually i havent sold the house in ohio yet
i gotta change my profile to  "lagrange,ny"
yea i got a few of those turbos layin around

deo has a couple of turbos layin  around from some mercedes+stuff
since i got the t3 adapter manifold,i may have to give them  a try

im tired of lookin at maps too,its time to just try somethin,anything!!!!
im not wasting my 35$ drag race registration fee for waterfest!!!
i dont care if it costs me 500$  :lol:

hey joe,your turbo doesnt sound too bad and at least its bigger than a stock td turbo right??
maybe it would be better than what ive got at least....
this thing is puttin the fuel to it pretty good ,thats not a problem

and for basic testing,intakes+exhausts "sort of" dont matter to just get a basic "feel" for the way a turbos characteristics will be
of course after i find somethin  i like,then ill do a "nice"install

[andy2]

I'll soon have the hx30w on as a single turbo in a day or two to give you guys some results on how it spools etc..

[hillfolk'r]

nice,,,,,i dont mind a little lag,,just 3500 is crazy
mid 2000 's is ok,,a little higher than stock,,and if the exh. temps(1500+) stay under what the garrett was givin,thad be great
one nice thing on the holset was the 1100 degree temps

[ezekiel]

there's an interesting post in IDI about using a G60 G-ladder on a diesel.

might be something to think about?  so you can use a big turbo,

or maybe some sort of dual setup like a big rig?  I'm just not so sure we have enough exhaust gas to make something like that work.

[RabbitGTDguy]

go for the merc. unit for WF if you need too. Its not bad, turbine side and trim is larger than the stock T3's... though, the compressor still holds at .42
Uses standard T3 flange and a standard 4 bolt discharge, just like the stock IDI TD units.

Let me know how it does for you if you do so...since I don't have my R520's yet...its hard for me to really gauge honestly sometimes I think. Compressor maps do get cumbersome and tiring to look at!

Joe

[A2TD]

Nice job on the install , that thing looks huge :shock: , Since your mechanical injection, why don't you try throwing some more timing into the motor........

[therabbittree]

blake man I called you several times and left messages.. I'm doing my passat interior swap this weekend.. man your turbo is sold if you want it to be..I'll buy it!!!!..as I was just gonna machine my hy35 any way.. I'd really like yours.. give me a shout .. you need to cut your head for some 1 piece fire rings.... that will solve the head gasket issue real quick.. plus you guys got the machine shop now to cut em....call me ..maybe the # i have is wrong???
ha..
later,
 deo..

[hillfolk'r]

yea maybe the # you had is wrong,,cause my cell never rang,,or the house phone either i dont think,,ichecked caller id,,,no calls from youi may ........
dont worry about buying the turbo from me for$$$
the way i see it,,,if you can use it,,go for it!!!
id like to see ya try it.....ill haveta stop over  
the headgasket job is almost done....ive gotta torque it+finish reassembly
imay try firing it up na with the upside down manifold,,,ill hillfolk on the dual downpipe thru the hood,lol
whatever turbo i use,,im definately gettin that 3 inch dp to fit
still gotta fix the fuelline plumbing,,and the nonfunctional ebrake

[therabbittree]

I saw your note .. i think i had a 3 wrong on your new home phone?..any how I'll try it out ..maybe on my passat hehe
Later
Deo

[RabbitGTDguy]

and if Deo doesn't try it... I'd def. try it. AWIC is in! Few things to clean up and it'll be good to go...and got the good word on the R520's within the next few weeks... need to find someone to reset my injectors to 250bar though...

Hey...what are you guys seeing EGT wise with the R520's...

Joe

[therabbittree]

520s are they the.260 ones?.. thats waht blake and I run... with the holselt no more then 1100 tops...with 1.6TD stocker turbo ..1400 or so is possible if you don't have the turbo closed down ie full boost 30-35...
Blake and i did a turbo swap yesterday.. etc hes gonna try a few turbois i had in my basement.. mercedes td turbos etc..
Later
deo

[A2TD]

I'd finish the intake and exhaust manifolds now, they'll help the performance greatly, given they are engineered right. You might also consider a 4" DP. Or I'd look into pump work, make that *** rev to 6000rpm, and get some more dynamic advance, you'll be laughin.
If your just gonna give up on that turbo (which I don't think you should its about perfect for what you want to do in my opinion) than let me know what you want for it!

4" downpipe  :shock:  thats way overkill, I know of 2 turbo VR6's make well over 600whp with a 3" dp...............