Author Topic: cold start oil flow (Read 22859 times)

v8volvo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2006, 09:48:42 pm »

But those 12min times were for a huge truck engine, no? Our VW diesels have the oil pressure sender on the end of the cylinder head (at least my Rabbit does), so we know exactly when we have pressure in the cam bearings. It does take several seconds for the light to go off on a cold morning, but using synthetic oil in the winter helps that. Do the later cars not have the sender on the head?

LeeG · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2006, 01:56:06 am »

I'm a little sceptical about those oil engineers:
My toyota would start fine at -25 unplugged, and the oil pressure gauge moved just as fast as normal...faster than it built pressure after an oil change. 10-30 oil and pressure sensor in head BTW

They must have had a pretty good battery and starter to start at -35. None of my vehicles would do much more than click at that temperature (when the dog tangled his leash in the extension cord and unplugged them.) At -35 and below, you have to rev it up before dumping the clutch -in nuetral- or the thick tranny oil will stall it out. Then do it again with the tranny in gear and transfer case in nuetral.

My vote is for regular block heater, or even 2 of them. Magnetic heater on oil pan if you need to. Emergency heat for cold starts from propane torch aimed at the exhaust manifold for 10 minutes. I've seen a few bulldozers with chimney setups around manifolds so you can shove a tiger torch in there for a while.

Another note, our Honda 1.3 didnt have room for a block heater in the casting. The factory heater was a bare heater element that strapped to the exhaust manifold. I bet you could do the same for cheap on any car with the heater element out of an electric kettle.

I currently have a $29 200 watt magnetic heater stuck to the block under turbo, seems fine for vancouver temps and hasn't fallen off yet.

Wingaman · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:36:55 am »

Mine 1.9TD in my Jetta 97 start without blocheater without problem at minus 45 celcius running with Mobil 1 5w50 oil. (Excluding wind factor, this doesn't affect engine, only humans and animals.)

Its ran 520 000 kilometers without any change on the engine (turbo, head and bloc is original) and didn't drink more tan 1 pint of oil in the interval of 24 000 kilometers of abuse (I drove it like if i was solen it).

The important is the maintenance. Injectors remplacement after 250 000 km, when the timing belt is replace be sure the timing is set correctly. And for cold start all glowplug are working.

Wingaman · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:39:55 am »

Only my old JohnDeere 2120, Massey Fergusson 165, Massey Fergusson 699, Oliver 1370, Universal 1340DCT and my Valtra need to be pluged before minus 5 celcius :lol:

Wingaman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:42:00 am »

Don't warm the turbo, warm the intake manifold :lol:

QuickTD · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2006, 08:43:49 am »

Oil pressure is one thing, oil flow to the cam lobes is quite another. Most engines will make oil pressure far quicker due to the thick oil in cold weather, provided the oil pump hasn't lost its prime. The problem is providing lubrication to areas not fed by pressurized galleries. The cam lobes are lubricated only by leakage from the lifter bores and the cam bearings. Thick oil doesn't leak from the bearings near as quickly, thats why oil pressure is much higher when the engine is cold, so the cam lobes can run dry for quite a while at startup.

veeman · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2006, 09:59:47 am »

Interesting subject... I use an oil accumulator on my Audi race car (SCCA club race). It came with the car, but the PO firmly believed in guaranteeing full oil pressure even in the tightest of turns on the track. The 5 cyl's have never really had oiling issues, but you can never be too sure, I guess...

I believe mine's made by accusump and it sits on the passenger side footwell. It's got lines going from a sandwich plate on the engine that tee's into the remote oil cooler lines.

The accumulator seems to do its job fine, but the thing that throws me off is that mine has a manual valve on it. I have to remember to open the valve before going onto the track...and I'll have to admit that I've forgotten sometimes. The other part is that it's hard to tell what the oil level should be when you change the oil.

Are you talking about using the accumulator as a "pre-oiler"? If I shut mine off at the valve @60 psi, it'll hold that until the next time I open it. Presumably, you could open the valve just as you start the engine to force oil pressure up, right?

HarryMann · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2006, 10:06:10 am »

Quote

Presumably, you could open the valve just as you start the engine to force oil pressure up, right?

Sounds like that's what he means

Rat407 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2006, 10:23:08 am »

AMSOIL has an oil Pre-Charger. It has been out for about a year now. AMS-Oiler

veeman · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2006, 10:46:02 am »

Looks like a neat system... and quite a bit smaller than the 1.5 quart Accusump on mine. Much easier to remote mount in the engine bay.

jackbombay · « **Reply #25 on:** November 06, 2006, 11:32:41 am »

Nobody has answered the oil level question do you way over fill? or so you let it run right on the bottom of your dipstick once your accumulator is "charged?"
I don't like the thought of either one...

veeman · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2006, 11:44:38 am »

Jackbombay...can't say I've exactly figured it out yet. I normally figure in the normal oil capacity then add the capacity of the accumulator plus some for the oil cooler/lines. Not very exact.

I can't accurately check the oil level when it's running and I'm not exactly sure if the accumulator is 100% full when I rev it and shut the valve before shutdown. With the valve shut and the engine off, the level isn't low, I do know that...

I definitely don't want too much oil in the system for the crank to whip into a froth, but I'm not exactly sure how to tell what's "right".

That all said, I've run the car like this for 3 years and the PO ran it like that for another 5 years. Remember this is a racing application and the 5-cyl's are known to be tough as nails... Perhaps Accusump would have more info.

Don't the nascar guys use a gear driven pre-oiler before they start their motors? Kind of a neat idea as well... Back to the original ideas though, it would seem that some method of heating might work the best to lower (edit) the viscosity...

HarryMann · « **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2006, 12:26:08 pm »

Quote

of heating might work the best to raise the viscosity...

lower?

Dr. Diesel · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2006, 12:46:42 pm »

i would add the regular amount of oil plus the capacity of the accumulator and lines. Check the level with the accumulator charged and shut off.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #29 on:** November 07, 2006, 05:08:04 pm »

Would using a small hydrolic pump (or other) plumbed into the pan and head (possibly oil pressure sender port) be beneficial for priming the engine? Or does the engine need internal pressure created?