Possible Headgasket/who knows

[shwak23]

If you pm me your email I can help you with your bentley situation for practically free.

Sent from my DROID X2

[shwak23]

Ahem... dp

[Rising]

if the bently is in good shape buy it! if your car is toast, sell me the bently? I need one but not yet, Might buy some parts off you or the car too, lol

Haha. Well there is an ebay seller selling new ones for that price plus shipping or you can order them brand new from Bentley for like 70. And hopefully the car isn't toast. I've put a ton of money and time putting this thing back together

If you pm me your email I can help you with your bentley situation for practically free.


Sent from my DROID X2

Okay sweet. Pmd
Sent from my HTC Mecha using Tapatalk 2

[ORCoaster]

I can't remember those Bentley manuals being that high in price.  Something more on the order of this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Golf-Jetta-Service-Manual/dp/0837616379/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335556130&sr=1-10


And doesn't AZAutohaus have a good price on them? 

For the price of a tank of diesel this IS  the best investment you should make in your car.  Before you buy part one.  How else besides this wonderful forum will you know how to do the repair?

[shwak23]

He now has a Bentley.

Sent from my DROID X2

[Rising]

If the injection pump is locked the whole time do I have to reset the timing in order to run the engine? Or will it be close enough to run until I can get my adapter?

Sent from my HTC Mecha using Tapatalk 2

[bajacalal]

It should run assuming it is in the same place (TDC) as you left it but I think you should check it anyway. Tiny changes do make a difference. On my car 0.98 mm was too smokey, 1.05 was too clattery and 1.02 mm is just right. The timing gauge is a nice thing to have if you're going to be fooling around with diesels in the future.

[Rising]

Okay well I finished up the headgasket job. I spun the engine over by hand a couple times and there wasn't any interference. But I think the pump timing got messed up somehow... I'm confused because I marked the timing belt teeth and transferred the marks and counted teeth and everything. So it should. Be at least close right?

This is what it does...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMrejOVv08&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my HTC Mecha using Tapatalk 2

[billybobf]

so if cold start allows it to run, but pushing it in kills it, Im guessing he needs more advance?

this all assuming he used a good camshaft lock to set valve timing

[Rising]

I used a 3" hinge. And I spent a good while trying different hinges and shims till it was perfect.

Sent from my HTC Mecha using Tapatalk 2

[8v-of-fury]

Is the pump stock as an 84 pump? If it is then it should not have an idle bump on the cold start lever.

Was the video your first start after the head gasket? Or did you prime and run it prior to the video?

It almost seems like you have a bit of air in the fuel (whiteish grey smoke), and have the timing WAY retarded.

Theoretically, the mark and pray method if carried out perfectly, should bring the timing to within exactly what it was. The pump not being loosened, and the belt being put back on exactly where it was before (albeit not the best method) the timing should be perfect. Assuming it was spot on to begin with.

I would invest in a timing gauge. The hinge and socket for the pump will work just fine, no need to buy a whole kit. It is not that any engine damage will occur from doing it the way you have done it (as long as it is done correctly), but clearly something is still way off. Timing is everything with these as it controls when the fuel is being injected in to the cylinder.

The number itself doesn't mean so much, so in all reality what you could do is just advance the timing a bump. You can do this by loosening the 4 13mm bolts/nuts holding your pump to the bracket, and while running, turn the top of the pump towards the engine. If it clears up any, then it was timing related. After you get it to a spot where it is running alright, shut it down and tighten up the bolts. Then loosen all 8 injector line nuts (17mm) and re-seat them, to relieve the stress of being readjusted.

[ORCoaster]

I'm confused because I marked the timing belt teeth and transferred the marks and counted teeth and everything. So it should. Be at least close right?

Well now I am confused.  What is this with marking belt teeth and transferring marks and all of that?  The Bentley says nothing of the sort.  You set the pin in the IP.  You set the door hinge in the back of the cam across the top of the head and you loosen the tension bolt.  That generally is all done after you have the TDC mark on the flywheel aligned with the pointer.  Once the belt is loose you slide it off and at this point I generally release the tension on the bolt on the front of the cam so the sprocket can spin freely.  Several means to get that done without relying on the door hinge in the back of the cam to do the work.  Now when it comes back to putting a belt back on what is harder than this?

Snug it up on the bottom end by pulling up on the belt and making sure it is set in the teeth in the lower crank.  Pass it next to the tension pulley, slide it around the IP bring it up over the top of the cam pulley.  It is now back on.  But not tight, so you make sure the cam pulley is slightly loose, put some tension on the tensioner and snug the 13 mm bolt.  Up top you check for the twist between the two top pulleys and either leave it of adjust it.  Again with the tensioner, careful how you move it as it may change the TDC look after the bolt is tight on the tensioner.  If good then grab the cam and tighten up the front bolt there.  

Underneath you give the engine a couple of roll overs to make sure all is good. Oh, did you pull the pin and door hinge out?  If no jamming of piston to valves occurs on to the start.  It should go and you then do the timing.  I measure before so I know what I had and I know how much to twist the pump towards or away from the engine based on that reading.  

What did you think the counting teeth would do for your timing set?  That is a first for me to see that.  So you must have some idea going there that I can't connect with.  

Later DAS

I am headed to Portland on Weds morning.  Do I need to drop off the timing gauge?  It would be early, say 7 ish, AM.

[8v-of-fury]

What did you think the counting teeth would do for your timing set?  That is a first for me to see that.  So you must have some idea going there that I can't connect with. 

It is the "Mark-and-Pray" method.. you mark it and pray you get it back on properly. By not undoing the pump bolts, it should theoretically save the timing. As the cam and crank are always TDC, the pump is relative to the pump bracket.

[Rising]

Is the pump stock as an 84 pump? If it is then it should not have an idle bump on the cold start lever.

As Far as i know the pump is the stock pump. Once again this car is still very new to me. I don't know what the cold start lever was doing but i do know that it didn't want to run without it. And even with it. VERY ROUGH.

Was the video your first start after the head gasket? Or did you prime and run it prior to the video?

That was not the first start after the headgasket. I'd say that was probably the second or third attempt. Maybe 10-15 seconds each.

Theoretically, the mark and pray method if carried out perfectley, should bring the timing to within exactly what it was. The pump not being loosened, and the belt being put back on exactly where it was before (albeit not the best method) the timing should be perfect. Assuming it was spot on to begin with.

I would invest in a timing gauge. The hinge and socket for the pump will work just fine, no need to buy a whole kit. It is not that any engine damage will occur from doing it the way you have done it (as long as it is done correctly), but clearly something is still way off. Timing is everything with these as it controls when the fuel is being injected in to the cylinder.

Yes something is definitely way off. The timing gauge adapter I ordered last week and still hasn't got here yet. But i needed to get the headgasket done this weekend. So i thought it would be at least close enough to run. I'm just worried that i screwed up somewhere else. Could it really be this far off timing on the injection pump? No possibility i've screwed up the valve timing or misplaced the timing belt?

If it is the injection pump, how did it get moved THAT far off time?

The number itself doesn't mean so much, so in all reality what you could do is just advance the timing a bump. You can do this by loosening the 4 13mm bolts/nuts holding your pump to the bracket, and while running, turn the top of the pump towards the engine. If it clears up any, then it was timing related. After you get it to a spot where it is running alright, shut it down and tighten up the bolts. Then loosen all 8 injector line nuts (17mm) and re-seat them, to relieve the stress of being readjusted.

I tried loosening those bolts up and trying to move the pump a little bit. But i couldn't get it to budge... how much force do you have to apply to shift the timing on this thing? The bolts were practically  ready to fall off.

I am headed to Portland on Weds morning.  Do I need to drop off the timing gauge?  It would be early, say 7 ish, AM.

Not sure if this is to me or someone else? But uhm. I live near washington dc... so i'm not sure if portland is exactly halfway.

And I locked the timing of the camshaft and injection pump and adjusted the belt as described in the bentley manual. I just added some marks on the pulleys/belts to make sure i wasn't off a tooth when reinstalling the belt. That's all. But whatever i did i apparently screwed something up 

I mean i spun the engine over by hand and no valves banging around. And the engine runs a little bit without terrifying grinding noises  dso that's good right? And on the bright side my headgasket doesn't leak anymore and i don't have to worry about overheating if i can't get it to run  haha.

[ORCoaster]

My bad I thought I was talking with Billybobf getting you a dial gauge will be more difficult.  There are four bolts that hold the IP pump in place, three 13 mm from the back side one through the IP pulley.  The one down low is most often overlooked.  Crack the IP nuts a bit and the pump should rotate easy then.  Move pump towards engine, retighten IP nuts on lines and one bolt up front to secure pump.  Then restart.  Once running you can loosen IP bolt and move pump and secure when it gets right.  Then tighten all the rest of the IP bolts but loosen all the nuts to relieve tension on them.  Then retighten.