Confused about turn signal wiring... - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Confused about turn signal wiring... by ventureforth on 04 Oct, 2010 18:57
• Gone through Bentley and online sources, and am still having a bit of trouble.  Part of the problem may be that I have a GTI front bumper, on a Westy core support, on a standard '82 diesel Rabbit.  According to the wiring diagram, depending on the side, there should be a brown wire, a black (plus stripe) wire, and a grey wire.  The brown is ground, the black is power, and the grey jumps it to the side indicators on the fender.  This is if I am reading things correctly.  Here's what I have...
  
  Car side:
  Black stripe
  Brown (which I'm pretty sure is the ground as it is grounded to a spot on the strut tower.
  Some light-ish, brown-ish, tan-ish,  not quite sure what the original color was, but it doesn't look grey to me
  
  On the turn signal in the bumper:
  White (though very dirty white)
  Black (or maybe it's really dark brown or really dark grey)
  Some light-ish, brown-ish, etc.
  
  On each of the signals, two of the wires have plastic covered female connectors, and one (lightish brownish, etc.) has a female bare metal connector.  My thinking is that the Black stripe wire goes to the White wire, the Brown goes to Black, and the the lightish... would jump to the fender indicators if I hadn't deleted them.  So, is this correct and, if so, should I just leave the lightish wires disconnected and cover them with electrical tape?  The reason I ask, is that everything seems to work fine with the setup I've just outlines, except the turn signal indicator in the dash appears to be dimly lit all the time (when the key is turned in the ignition, at any rate).  It's unnoticeable in daylight, but at night I can see that it is actually slightly illuminated.  Should this be of concern?  Do I have my wires crossed, so to speak?
  
  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks. 
• #1 by ventureforth on 05 Oct, 2010 09:58
• Part of the issue is that I'm pretty color blind, so identifying based on color is a trick for me.  I was hoping the connection (plastic covered vs bare metal) would give a clue as to which wire is what.  To be honest, I thought the lightish one was the brown ground, at first, until I noticed the darker one, which I initially thought was dark green, was grounded to the strut tower.  I thought perhaps it was actually dark grey and not dark green, but again, it is grounded, whereas the wiring diagrams show that, if it were grey, it would jump all the way across to the other side indicator on the fender (to be clear, I am referring to the small additional indicator lights on the side of the fender, not the fender integrated turn signals that would have been stock.  Mine has the westy front, now, with single squares and t/s in the bumper).
  
  Is there any chance the bare metal connector can be used to categorize that lightish wire as being either the ground or the jump wire?
  
  Again, everything seems to work fine, except the slightly illuminated t/s indicator light in the dash.
  
  And I just realized, this post should probably be in "troubleshooting"
• #2 by ventureforth on 05 Oct, 2010 12:25
• I've read a number of the other posts with similar issues now, and they have shed some light on why the dash light might be half-illuminated.  In most cases, it seems it could be an issue at the hazard light switch...if I understand correctly.  I guess, what I'm really hoping to learn is what I should do with that lightish-tanish-brownish-blah blah blah wire that has nowhere to go...or does it?  And I don't seem to see that color (at least my perception of what that color is) mentioned in my Bentley or online.  It's the only color that is shared both on the turn signal itself and the vehicle (in that the other wires on the turn signal are white and black, and the other wires on the vehicle are black striped and dark brown). 
  
  If it's okay to just leave it disconnected and taped up, then I guess we're good.  But could that have something to do with the dimly lit dash bulb?  Is the broken loop causing a ground or resistance issue?  If I hook the matching wires up, the fuse tends to blow.  Not immediately, necessarily, but eventually.
  
  I guess the other question would be...if the turn signals flash properly (as in not too quick or defunct in any way) and the hazards flash properly, can I safely assume that the black striped wire on the vehicle is supposed to connect to the white wire on the turn signal, and the dark brown wire is supposed to connect to the black wire, respectively?  Can I assume I've at least done that bit correctly before I move on to troubleshooting the dimly lit dash light and the disconnected lightish-tannish-yada yada wires?
• #3 by ventureforth on 05 Oct, 2010 21:17
• So, I noticed that the turn signals are not illuminated when not being used...even at night with the headlights on.  Having no frame of reference, is this normal, or should they be on when the headlights are on and merely flash off when switched one way or the other?  And, if they should be illuminated, could that point to an improper wiring job on my part in connecting them as I did vs. how I should?
  
  If anyone has (or could take) a pic with the three wires labeled, that would really help me out.  I can't seem to locate one.  If I see them, I can compare and contrast despite my color blindness.  For all I know, the lightish one is actually the brown one, and the one I think is brown is actually grey.  Then again, this post doesn't seem to be getting much response, so I may just have to get back to trial and error...which is okay, too.
  
  Thanks.
• #4 by theman53 on 06 Oct, 2010 05:09
• I wish I could help. I have the same issue and I haven't opened the wiring at all. It is stock. No pics either sorry. Hope you find out though for both of us
• #5 by ventureforth on 06 Oct, 2010 12:10
• Before you started having issues, did your turn signals stay illuminated like driving lights until a particular side was activated, or are they supposed to stay dark until activated?  I'm referring to when the headlights are on. Or did you never have properly functioning signals?
• #6 by Vincent Waldon on 06 Oct, 2010 13:40
• I've not weighed in yet because I don't have any specific knowledge of what colour is what... but it occurs to me to offer up one troubleshooting trick that has helped me in the past.
  
  Turn signal troubleshooting is pesky because:
  
  - all the bulbs have shared filaments... which can create rogue current paths to ground
  - lots of chances for water to leak into the system and wreak havok on those same grounds
  - the system being designed to function as directionals but also four-way-flashers... so lots of crossover wiring
  
  So, when troubleshooting a non-obvious turn signal issue I try to break a complex system into simple pieces by pulling all four lenses and then all four bulbs.  I then put the bulbs back in, one at a time, one side at a time... testing as I go... until such time as all the strangeness starts to happen.  This becomes a major clue as to which side/socket/bulb/wiring harness to look closer at.
  
  Just a possible approach...
  
  
  Vince
  
  
• #7 by ventureforth on 06 Oct, 2010 14:21
• So I replaced the flasher relay at the fuse box and the dash light is now dark as it should be.  However, the turn signal now flashes twice as fast.  It clicks about 4 times per second.  Is that normal and before I was only clicking at half speed or?  The hazards flash at the old rate of two clicks per second.  Should they be the same or is the hazard supposed to be slower than the t/s?  Or does this symptom point to something wrong?
• #8 by Vincent Waldon on 06 Oct, 2010 14:38
• This points to a bulb not working properly... the system is designed to warn you of a burnt-out bulb by flashing double-quick.
• #9 by ventureforth on 06 Oct, 2010 14:53
• Out of curiosity then, why would it flash normally with the old flasher relay (but with the dashlight dimly lit) and abnormally with the new relay (but with the dashlight dark as it should be?
• #10 by Vincent Waldon on 06 Oct, 2010 14:56
• Dunno... except that it doesn't sound like your old relay was working properly in the first place?
  
  What I said was:  "fast clicking points to a bulb issue, cause the system is designed to work this way as a warning".  Whether it's an actual bulb problem, a wiring problem, a different defect in your new relay... hard to say without being there.
  
  Are all four bulbs flashing properly now, albeit faster than normal?   
• #11 by ventureforth on 06 Oct, 2010 15:15
• "Are all four bulbs flashing properly now, albeit faster than normal? "
  
  That would depend on whether or not they are meant to be illuminated when the headlights are on, and merely flash off when activated.  Right now, aside from the quick flashing, they all work and the dash light is off when they are not in use, and no fuses are blowing.  So, if it is okay that they are off when not being used (even though the headlights are on), then they work fine but quick.  If they are meant to remain illuminated except when flashing when the headlights are on, then...
• #12 by ventureforth on 08 Oct, 2010 11:00
• So I messed around with the wires a bit and they now flash at an appropriate speed.  It turned out the striped black wire needed to be connected to the black or dark wire, and the brown connected to the white.  Still don't know if that makes any sense to me, as I figured the ground would go to black, but what do I know?  The one question remains, though, as to whether they should remain illuminated when the headlights are on...as they currently are not performing in that manner.  So, either we're now good, or we still have a gremlin to track down, based on the answer to that question.
• #13 by ventureforth on 08 Oct, 2010 20:28
• Okay, one little bump just to see if I can get that one little question answered...
  
  Do the turn signals remain illuminated when the headlights are on (like driving/parking lights), flashing when activated, or do they remain dark until you activate them?
  
  Thanks.
• #14 by ventureforth on 09 Oct, 2010 16:29
• So the answer to my questions seems to be yes.  I was finally able to figure out the wiring color scheme.  Seems what I thought was the ground was the jumper/parking light wire on the light.  The final scheme that currently has everything functioning correctly, including the dash light:
  
  -Black wire on light to black/stripe wire on vehicle
  -lightish brownish tannish wire on light to dark brown wire on vehicle
  -what is either a white or light grey wire on light to a light-ish colored wire on vehicle (I can't really tell what color they are and they don't seem to match, but that may be because the lights came off a different year rabbit.  At any rate, they are the two lightest wires on either side of the equation)
  
  I also put in new front bulbs.  They looked okay, but I figured I would do so just to be safe as they were a little corroded at the base.
  
  So, for now, I think the problem is solved.  Let's hope it remains so.
  
  Thanks again for all the advice.