Brake parts advice

[doonboggle]

Background:  The 1981 diesel rabbit pickup I bought apparently had not been driven for quite some time, due the former owner, former Nazi also, had died about 4-5 years ago ... the son-in-law was the selling agent.  To get it home, I had him drive it to our home, about 60 miles.  'Seemed' to be OK.
At home, due to winter and other minor family problems, did not drive it ... and in this time, took stuff off the engine ... nothing regarding brakes ... to clean them.  Finally, last week got it all put together and drove it ... now two (2) times, both times 26 miles.

1st time I 'thought' I noticed something, but was not that sure due to not having driven it before.
Then yesterday, took another trip, same route, and did this time realize that an issue is happening.

The front brakes are binding up ... not locking ... but binding enough to slow my speed, and cause the coolant to get much hotter.

Question: I have an appointment to take it to a VW shop ... not dealer ... in a couple of weeks.  Am going to have them do a complete brake review and replacement of anything ... total rebuild in other words.  In the meantime, due to difficulty of finding parts, and high likelihood that the shop will not have the parts, decided to try and order as much as I can to pass along to him.

In going thru my Bentley, I see in several places discussions that in some items, different manufactured items were used.  Thus ... my concern is to try and order the precise items ... but at this stage, do not know which ones to get ... and certainly don't want to order willy-nilly and then have unusable parts.

Is there a method, based on VIN or ?? ... to determine what brand parts was original to my pickup?

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Where are you from (where do you live, not exact address - but state/country)

If you can take a picture of your front calipers (without a wheel in the way) - i can tell you which stuff you have.

81 i think was a transition year on the front calipers and front pads.
Everything else in on and around the front brakes is the same regardless = on 80-83 Trucks.

My 81 truck had the later mk1 calipers that use the larger brake pad. The earlier style used a smaller square brake pad.

But if you want to play the best game - get all new 83-84 GTI front brakes (calipers, pads, vented rotors, caliper pins, caliper pin boots/sleeves, anti-rattle clips, caliper hoses)

I re-used my existing calipers, caliper pins and hoses because they checked out okay - but put all the rest new. And put Everything new on the rear brakes except the brake hoses that go from body to axle.

The rear brakes on trucks are larger. The drums, shoes, spring kit are different from a mk1 rabbit or jetta. But will interchange from 89-95 Gas powered Golf and Jetta if you need some used drums.

I have great brakes even hauling over 1200 pounds of excess.

I bought a kit from an eBay vendor that had the GTI vented rotors and matching brake pads with anti-rattle clips. About $60-70 shipped.

Either your calipers need removing and a full teardown with flushing cleaning honing and new seals. Or replacement.

Or the caliper pin boots/sleeves are damaged and not letting the caliper move freely.

If you are paying labor, it will be cheaper to replace with all new parts rather than recondition old parts with their labor.

If you are within the USA, i can point you towards the best deals on quality parts. Its only been a few months since i did all my brakes.

A complete and thorough flush of the brake system should be done.

[theman53]

I would first see if the brake hoses aren't bad. The rubber ones. The rubber gets old and a little flap comes down and acts like a check valve. Basically, when you brake they don't release as they should. It is usually a cheap fix just get the hose and bleed the brakes when done.

[doonboggle]

Where are you from (where do you live, not exact address - but state/country)
89447-Nevada

If you can take a picture of your front calipers (without a wheel in the way) - i can tell you which stuff you have.
IANAM ... I am not a mechanic, so how would one go about doing this?  The last time I worked on brakes was on my Model 'A' during high school... 55years ago.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Good gracious Doon, you're older than Willie Nelson looks.

You'd need to loosen the lug nuts on a front wheel, jack up the front end, take the lugnuts the rest of the way off, take off the wheel, and shoot a picture of the brake caliper/rotor.

Or you could send me your email address and i could send you pictures of mine - and then you would compare the picture to what is on yours.

Year model / VIN won't get you the info you seek.
It has to be done physically/visually.

If you aren't up to it, maybe just wait and let the mechanics check it out. If they say you need everything - do the upgrade to 83-84 GTI front brakes. Only a few dollars more and well worth it.

Most parts for these Trucks are inexpensive. But if the shop furnishes the parts - they will not be inexpensive at all.

The best source for most of our parts is right next to you in Arizona.

[doonboggle]

Not quite as old as Willie ... Elvis ... or Jerry Lee ... but close.  Hated them guys when in highschool ... due to all the girls swooning over them ... as in COMPETITION!

Will attempt this tomorrow.  Don't mean to sound like a nerd, but have fused spinal disks ... and getting about ain't as easy as it was in those days.  Shouldn't have any problem with this.
Thanks

Good gracious Doon, you're older than Willie Nelson looks.

You'd need to loosen the lug nuts on a front wheel, jack up the front end, take the lugnuts the rest of the way off, take off the wheel, and shoot a picture of the brake caliper/rotor.

Or you could send me your email address and i could send you pictures of mine - and then you would compare the picture to what is on yours.

Year model / VIN won't get you the info you seek.
It has to be done physically/visually.

If you aren't up to it, maybe just wait and let the mechanics check it out. If they say you need everything - do the upgrade to 83-84 GTI front brakes. Only a few dollars more and well worth it.

Most parts for these Trucks are inexpensive. But if the shop furnishes the parts - they will not be inexpensive at all.

The best source for most of our parts is right next to you in Arizona.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

I figured you were either older than Willie or had some limitations.
Spinal stuff is pretty extreme, go easy on yourself out there.

What theman53 mentions is true and can happen, and another possibility.
But corrosion inside the calipers after sitting for extended periods is a common ailment on mk1's.

I'll try to find a link to pictures of the 2 different style brake pads.

Anybody with a Diesel VW Truck is cooler than Elvis.

I hated him when i was a kid/teenager because my grandmom, mom, aunts, teachers, and all the elder women i respected, would throw their bras and underwear on stage at his concerts. They went everytime he came to town at the coliseum.

I could have went to several of his shows, but didn't want to see that action.

[maxfax]

I hated him when i was a kid/teenager because my grandmom, mom, aunts, teachers, and all the elder women i respected, would throw their bras and underwear on stage at his concerts. They went everytime he came to town at the coliseum.

I could have went to several of his shows, but didn't want to see that action.

BWAHAHAHAHAH I'm still laughing out loud over that one!

IIRC all the '81 and up Trucks used the Kelsey Hayes calipers..  Most but not all of the cars had them.   The Girling calipers were used on the earlier models..  And from many suppliers they are obsolete now..  IIRC again the two will interchange as long as you use the proper pads with the caliper..   

Since your truck has been sitting a bit, and although not as old as You and Baron ( ) time has still taken it's toll... Your best (and safest) bet would be to replace the hydraulics at the wheels..  (Calipers, Hoses, Wheel Cylinders)..  AS Baron suggested the 83-84 GTI front brakes are a great upgrade for a little extra money.. Even if you're not planning on hauling mountains or speed racing...

[maxfax]

I almost forgot..... For Reference here's some pics:


Brake Pads For Earlier Girling Calipers


Brake Pads For Later Kelsey Hayes Calipers

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Max has all that right.
And nice pix of the brake pads too.

Problem is most places have listing for both style calipers / pads on 81 applications. So you need to verify beforehand, IF you just want to get by with pads and re-using the existing calipers.

If you're going to get new/reman'd calipers - don't even consider the Girling units. Even if you have them on there now. You can switch up - its bolt on.

Another important thing - is not to overlook the caliper pin boots/sleeves. They are pretty crucial to good smooth brake engagement/disengagement. A new caliper "probably" comes with new caliper pins and the boots/sleeves.

AutohausAZ.com and RockAuto.com are real good suppliers with quality european name brands at under wholesale prices.

I'm still young enough to be Doon's son.
But older than any of my cars. And i have some oldies. 

[fatmobile]

Most mechanics won't bother to change the slider bushings.
 They'll just buy rebuilt calipers.
Bleeders will probably break off too and they won't want to deal with that either.
I pull them apart, clean them and put them back together.

On the rear,..
 new springs,
 wheel cylinders before they start to leak
you might need new e-brake cables
shoes
maybe new rear bearings while you are in there.

Did you check with the mechanic to see if you can supply parts?
 They often make a little off parts, and want to guarantee the parts they install are of good quality.
 

[doonboggle]

Most mechanics won't bother to change the slider bushings.  They'll just buy rebuilt calipers.
Was not aware of these things being rebuilt ... but of course, IANAM.  What is savings percentage (roughly) for rebuilt ones?

Bleeders will probably break off too and they won't want to deal with that either.
Meaning that they would not be bleeding???

I pull them apart, clean them and put them back together.
"them" ... calipers???

On the rear,..
 new springs,
 wheel cylinders before they start to leak
you might need new e-brake cables
shoes
maybe new rear bearings while you are in there.

Did you check with the mechanic to see if you can supply parts?  They often make a little off parts, and want to guarantee the parts they install are of good quality.
His shop is of vintage 1970-80 era in Carson City.  Initially began, under prior owner, as vw shop (name-Valley Wagon) ... but now gets all German units.
So doubt that he'll have all the stuff suggested.  But if he does, and wants to not use what I provide, will reverse and go to a more local fellow mechanic who claims vw experience ... but disqualified him after he screwed up the diesel engine ... but surely will know brakes ... IMO.

[doonboggle]

loosen the lug nuts on a front wheel, jack up the front end, take the lugnuts the rest of the way off, take off the wheel, and shoot a picture of the brake caliper/rotor.

The 'gold' looking stuff is overspray of gold paint the old fellow used ... ALL OVER THE TRUCK...

[Baron VonZeppelin]

You have the "Good" style calipers and pads. The Kelsey-Hayes.
The later 81-84 mk1 units with the larger pads.

Notice your rotor is a solid design. The GTI rotor is like two rotor plates with vented sections in bewtween. If you use the vented GTI rotors - you have to use the GTI brake pads too.

Due to lack of brake dust, i think you are good on that front side.
Maybe check the other front side too.

It could be your Rear Brakes are doing the grabbing/sticking.
Which the Rears are usually the ones more in need on these Trucks. I had to replace EVERYTHING on my rear brakes except the rear hoses and e-Brake cables.
And of course put new axle bearings and grease seals also.

IF you were to buy "new" front calipers - most all will be offered as rebuilt/remanufactured. BRAND SPANKING NEW would be about double or triple the price.

If the caliper bleeder screw(s) break off - you have 2 options.
Remove and drill-tap to oversize. Then flush it and install rebuild kit.
Or a Replacement caliper.

Concerning calipers - IF you are paying labor, it is not cost effective to have them rebuild your old parts. IF you do it yourself - it can be very cost effective.

Rear wheel cylinders are $10 each new. Makes no sense for anyone to rebuild those. The kit and a new bleeder screw is more than $10 alone.

There are a lot of good seasoned mechanics out there that have very little clue about our Diesel engines. But otherwise can do satisfactory quality work.

VW front brakes are a bit irregular in my opinion.
Due to the boot/slider sleeves on the caliper pins.
Those things have to be installed just right for smooth and proper operation. I would not want anyone who was not well versed in VW front brakes to screw with the front brakes. Unless they were of perceptive detail oriented mindset with high degree of common sense.

 

[doonboggle]

You have the "Good" style calipers (PTL) and pads. The Kelsey-Hayes.  The later 81-84 mk1 units with the larger pads.

Notice your rotor is a solid design. The GTI rotor is like two rotor plates with vented sections in bewtween. If you use the vented GTI rotors - you have to use the GTI brake pads too.

Due to lack of brake dust, i think you are good on that front side.  Maybe check the other front side too.
Will do; and post for analysis comments.

It could be your Rear Brakes are doing the grabbing/sticking.  The day they seized up on me ... not a total 'locking' ... when I pulled into the garage and in front contemplating, heard a notable 'click' coming from the pass. side (right front).  Stooped down and felt the wheels, and both fronts were much hotter than the rears ... merely warm.  Tried pushing the p/u out of the garage, as I normally do, and she rolled easy as heck ... indicating the seizure had sprung loose.
Half of that 26 mile test drive (checking mpg ... 52 even with the 12-13 mile problem) was going A-OK.  Tachometer I had converted and installed was working perfectly, and 5th gear had lots of oomph.  At the 'Y', I braked to stop and check something in the bed, and then took off.  Immediately noticed there was no more 'oomph' ... in any gear.  Had to limp home in 4th & 3rd ... and was concerned that the engine would get too hot and stop ... needle JUST below the danger red marks.

Which the Rears are usually the ones more in need on these Trucks. I had to replace EVERYTHING on my rear brakes except the rear hoses and e-Brake cables.
And of course put new axle bearings and grease seals also.

IF you were to buy "new" front calipers - most all will be offered as rebuilt/remanufactured. BRAND SPANKING NEW would be about double or triple the price.

If the caliper bleeder screw(s) break off - you have 2 options.
Remove and drill-tap to oversize. Then flush it and install rebuild kit.
Or a Replacement caliper.Noticed the one I've posted, the little rubber plug over the bleeder port is rotten; so need to find all 4 to replace.

Concerning calipers - IF you are paying labor, it is not cost effective to have them rebuild your old parts. IF you do it yourself - it can be very cost effective.

Rear wheel cylinders are $10 each new. Makes no sense for anyone to rebuild those. The kit and a new bleeder screw is more than $10 alone.

There are a lot of good seasoned mechanics out there that have very little clue about our Diesel engines. But otherwise can do satisfactory quality work.True, as I learned the hard way.  Wound up costing me a 300.00 bill for 'valve job'.  Turned out, based on my analysis and how the truck ran coming from the seller ... IMO ... he had screwed up in the IP timing process.  So he ain't gonna touch my diesel engine any more.  Other common items, ok.

VW front brakes are a bit irregular in my opinion.
Due to the boot/slider sleeves on the caliper pins.
Those things have to be installed just right for smooth and proper operation. I would not want anyone who was not well versed in VW front brakes to screw with the front brakes. Unless they were of perceptive detail oriented mindset with high degree of common sense.