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Taller 5th gear, where to get one
by
Doakster
on 07 Sep, 2009 19:00
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I looked up the specs for my trans and the ecodiesel has a .745 fifth gear with a 4.250 final drive.
Does anyone sell a taller gear than that?
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#1
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 07 Sep, 2009 19:16
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not really, but there is an alleged .68 fifth gear set floating around out there somewhere. you need to change your final drive ratio honestly tho, cause .75 is pretty high already. but the final drive is really low.
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#2
by
Quantum TD
on 08 Sep, 2009 09:40
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the 1980-1984 FF, FO and FN transmissions had a .71 5th gear. Autotech sells a .71 5th kit as well. Not cheap though.
The bad news on the FF, FO and FN transmissions is that they won't bolt into your ECODiesel. The gearset will, but the transmission will not.
I think the bigger problem is the high final drive. That's higher than any stock VW trans. It's a desirable transmission, but if you want MPG, you'll want to go down to 3.89 or 3.91. You can try a 3.67, but I generally find the cars get doggy with the 3.67.
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#3
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 08 Sep, 2009 09:45
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i have 3.67's in my rabbit in an AUG trans. everybody told me to avoid an aug like the plauge, but i had a free low miles trans, so i used it, and boy im glad i did. it might not have a very high fifth gear (.89) but it sure is fun to drive. i get great mileage also. and its so nice having a GTI feel with the close ratio trans, it keeps the turbo spooled alot better than the old GC 4 speed did.
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#4
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 08 Sep, 2009 09:46
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the 1980-1984 FF, FO and FN transmissions had a .71 5th gear. Autotech sells a .71 5th kit as well. Not cheap though.
The bad news on the FF, FO and FN transmissions is that they won't bolt into your ECODiesel. The gearset will, but the transmission will not.
I think the bigger problem is the high final drive. That's higher than any stock VW trans. It's a desirable transmission, but if you want MPG, you'll want to go down to 3.89 or 3.91. You can try a 3.67, but I generally find the cars get doggy with the 3.67.
and why would an ff,fn or fo not bolt to an ecodiesel? i was under the impression that a VW trans bolts to any VW 4 cylinder with the appropriate clutch and flywheel? what makes it not fit the eco-diesel?
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#5
by
cyrus #1
on 08 Sep, 2009 10:49
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It will bolt to the Eco-Diesel no problem. You just won't be able to bolt it into a MKII chassis.
FF, FN, and so on are MKI boxes that only have the provisions for MKI motor mounts.
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#6
by
ilikevwdiesel
on 08 Sep, 2009 11:25
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sell the ecodiesel trans to a racer and get an ACH or AGS trans. You'll like it a lot better.
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#7
by
Doakster
on 08 Sep, 2009 16:55
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the 1980-1984 FF, FO and FN transmissions had a .71 5th gear. Autotech sells a .71 5th kit as well. Not cheap though.
The bad news on the FF, FO and FN transmissions is that they won't bolt into your ECODiesel. The gearset will, but the transmission will not.
I think the bigger problem is the high final drive. That's higher than any stock VW trans. It's a desirable transmission, but if you want MPG, you'll want to go down to 3.89 or 3.91. You can try a 3.67, but I generally find the cars get doggy with the 3.67.
I looked on Autotech site, but i only see that they sell a .72 5th gear for 02A/02J transmissions. Here's a link.
http://www.autotech.com/prod_drive_gearconv.htmI'll be talking to a local VW performance shop near me to get a price on a trans rebuild with a peloquin limited slip and possibly see what they can come up with for a 5th gear.
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#8
by
Quantum TD
on 08 Sep, 2009 17:26
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i have 3.67's in my rabbit in an AUG trans. everybody told me to avoid an aug like the plauge, but i had a free low miles trans, so i used it, and boy im glad i did. it might not have a very high fifth gear (.89) but it sure is fun to drive. i get great mileage also. and its so nice having a GTI feel with the close ratio trans, it keeps the turbo spooled alot better than the old GC 4 speed did.
I generally eschew the use of a 3.67 in a 1.6 unless you've got a turbo with LDA to push it in 1st, 5th and reverse. 2nd thru 4th are fine in any trans, but the 3.67 with a low power motor makes takeoffs and reversing a little hard with a 1.6NA. Also, you need the power to accelerelate in 5th if you've got a .75 or .71 and a 3.67 R&P. Otherwise, you'll do alot of downshifting to pass on the highway in 5th gear.
A stock ECO, despite having a turbo, is still light on power. Unless the cat's been ripped out and an LDA pump installed, it's still limited in power. It might work. I've never tried it. But, if you could find an ACH, AGS or AOP and add a .71 5th (since he's having the trans rebuilt anyways), then that would be ideal for a stock ECO (in my mind). The original 1.6TDs sold in the Jettas had those transmissions and they hauled a$$.
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#9
by
Doakster
on 08 Sep, 2009 17:51
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i have 3.67's in my rabbit in an AUG trans. everybody told me to avoid an aug like the plauge, but i had a free low miles trans, so i used it, and boy im glad i did. it might not have a very high fifth gear (.89) but it sure is fun to drive. i get great mileage also. and its so nice having a GTI feel with the close ratio trans, it keeps the turbo spooled alot better than the old GC 4 speed did.
I generally eschew the use of a 3.67 in a 1.6 unless you've got a turbo with LDA to push it in 1st, 5th and reverse. 2nd thru 4th are fine in any trans, but the 3.67 with a low power motor makes takeoffs and reversing a little hard with a 1.6NA. Also, you need the power to accelerelate in 5th if you've got a .75 or .71 and a 3.67 R&P. Otherwise, you'll do alot of downshifting to pass on the highway in 5th gear.
A stock ECO, despite having a turbo, is still light on power. Unless the cat's been ripped out and an LDA pump installed, it's still limited in power. It might work. I've never tried it. But, if you could find an ACH, AGS or AOP and add a .71 5th (since he's having the trans rebuilt anyways), then that would be ideal for a stock ECO (in my mind). The original 1.6TDs sold in the Jettas had those transmissions and they hauled a$$.
That is one thing that worries me, having to tall of a gear and no power to push it in 5th gear, heck i have a hard enough time passing people on the highway as it is. But to throw another thought out there, I'm doing some other work to the car while the trans is out. New injectors from Giles are on there way, and i'll be putting a 2.5 in DP and exhaust in. At some point in the future i'm going to converter to a Giles built LDA pump. So I think i may be good on the power at that point. I could always try and find a used 3.941 final drive set and install it on the rebuild, at that point it would be the same trans/specs as an AGS, AOP, but that would probably cost me more money and time then i want to spend.
You really think a .71 5th gear would be too much for the ECO? I still can't find anyone that sells one.
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#10
by
Doakster
on 08 Sep, 2009 18:28
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Another questions for you fellas.
The AVX (ECO) has the following gears.
3.455/1.944/1.286/.909/.745 Final Drive 4.250
The AGS has the following gears.
3.455/1.944/1.286/.909/.745 Final Drive 3.941
So the only difference between the two is the final drive which will essentially still lower rpm over all but will have the same gearing between each gear, correct?
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#11
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 09 Sep, 2009 09:53
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no, each gear will be slightly longer, because of the longer final drive ratio.
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#12
by
VelocityConservation
on 09 Sep, 2009 16:06
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Doakster,
I have been there, I had an AWY in my NA Jetta. (3.94,3.45,1.94,1.44,1.13,.89)
First I had a FF put into a 4S MKII case (3.89,3.45,1.94,1.29,.97,.80)(the 4S was trashed).
With the FF it was decent, but the .80 was not tall enough for the 70 mph interstates.
I put a .71 5th in. (purchased from
www.brokevw.com, GREAT transaction and support).
The car is very good at highway speeds now, the only drawback to this setup is the large jump from 4th to 5th.
I would recommend this setup for anyone who had lots of highway in their driving and doesn't want to try a 3.67r&p.
If I ever have to do another tranny for this car I am going to look for an ACN.
VelocityConservation
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#13
by
Doakster
on 09 Sep, 2009 16:31
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Doakster,
I have been there, I had an AWY in my NA Jetta. (3.94,3.45,1.94,1.44,1.13,.89)
First I had a FF put into a 4S MKII case (3.89,3.45,1.94,1.29,.97,.80)(the 4S was trashed).
With the FF it was decent, but the .80 was not tall enough for the 70 mph interstates.
I put a .71 5th in. (purchased from www.brokevw.com, GREAT transaction and support).
The car is very good at highway speeds now, the only drawback to this setup is the large jump from 4th to 5th.
I would recommend this setup for anyone who had lots of highway in their driving and doesn't want to try a 3.67r&p.
If I ever have to do another tranny for this car I am going to look for an ACN.
VelocityConservation
Man I'm not digging the big jump from 4th to 5th you're talking about. I do a far amount of highway but not a tremendous amount. Maybe I'll just stick with my regular old AVX
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#14
by
Quantum TD
on 09 Sep, 2009 19:44
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If you're doing the mods, then I think a 3.67 will work on the ECO. It's hard to say how you'll like it until you try it.
The 7A, AOP or AGS is what came in the stock 1983-1986 US-spec Turbo diesels with the LDA. They were a good match for that motor (3.94 R&P and .75 or .71 5th).
If you to go on the cheap (i.e. not rebuild), then just buy one of those transmissions. They are a bit hard to find, especially the 7A.
I think with the mods you'll be doing, the .71 would be fine with a 3.89 or 3.94 R&P. That will keep you in power on the highway. A .71 with a 3.67, I'm not so sure...
If you're committed to rebuilding, then I'd say just drop a 3.89 or 3.94 final drive in there and keep your AVX gearset. If you find you want to drop the RPMs even more on the highway, then you can source a used .71 and swap it in yourself on the car. If the shop that is rebuilding your trans is VW specialists, then I'm sure they'd swap you for the 4.25 AVX R&P. If you find you have to buy an R&P, then be sure to keep the 4.25 one, to sell on VWVortex. Those turds are always looking for those gearsets. I've had meatheads want me to pull the ring and pinions out of good transmissions and sell them to them for beans.