Anyone with an mTDI that really works?

[regcheeseman]

If you feel the need for firsthand VW examples, how about PM-ing Tintin, Jimfoo, RabbitGTDguy or e-mailing Karl at Westyventures. Perhaps drop an e-mail to Giles, etc. A post on the Vanagon TDI Conversion Yahoo group would yield you countless firsthand reports of success with significant improvement over stock performance.

 :roll: Amazing! I hadn't actually ever thought about doing that,

Which brings me back to the original post of all conversions having 'issues'

With a hardly modified AAZ pump, mine makes enough power for me, though you may have another idea what "power" is. So far, mine starts just fine, although it hasn't been colder than 9*F. It has started smoking, but that may be from it really overheating when I lost the harmonic balancer and water pump pulleys. I think the rings either got weakened, or maybe coked up from getting too hot, as I also seem to have more blow by. I don't know what a "solution that really works" is, but mine works for me.

This is just more personal evidence of that fact.

I know of several people who have done fully successful mTDI conversions

Well done, so do I - including the bloke down the pub I mentioned earlier, however -refering to my first post- I have quizzed all these people and those that have replied have all mentioned issues - all I was asking for was little bit of help........


You mention the 4TBA - the first I have heard of it's existance (I'll search more) which I'm guessing is a factory pump?

Think I'll give up on the mechanical pump and go for standalone management with VNT stepper control.

[Sprockets]

I think it comes down to a compromise.  Look at how long people ran carbs.  Yes could be made to run nicely, and produce lots of power, but there is only so much you can do with bits of brass with holes in it lol.  Same with a pump, only so much can be done with springs and plates Then along came the microchip and we no longer have to have linear advance or fuelling rates.  We can give the engine what it needs!  Now those previces devices are fossils, but at one time, we were amazed with their capabilities, and the knowledge of the person setting it up.

Just my thoughts on the subject, as I have no first hand experience on the subject in question.

-Gavin

[theman53]

I believe the 4BTA was a cummins dodge engine. Same as the 6B but 4cylinder.

[lord_verminaard]

The electronic VNT pumps are still 80% mechanically driven.  The remaining 20% is purely for emissions, cold start, and fuel economy- but unfortunately, the pump won't run without it- along with the entire engine harness including cluster and immobilizer.  If you are going to bother with standalone management which would be nearly worthless for the amount of effort it would take, you would be better off constructing a common-rail system to adapt to the TDI engine.  Then we would be getting somewhere.

Brendan

[jackbombay]

The electronic VNT pumps are still 80% mechanically driven.  

   You have overlooked the fact that an e-TDI is not simply an electrically controlled pump, it is a fully integrated system where the computer controls all aspects of engine management through feedback from many sensors, optimizing power, economy and emissions for any temperature, altitude, and throttle setting.

[jackbombay]

The computer will also do a better job of adjusting for changing conditions, e.g. ambient temps, pump wear, etc.  but a mechanical pump can be adjusted to be very close on the timing (imperceptibly close) and the air to fuel can be adjusted to be leaner (less emissions) in all operating conditions.

  Leaner increases NOx emissions.

[jackbombay]

And higher fuel to air increases particulate/smoke emissions, pick yer poison.

Andrew

  Yea, but my point is that with an e-tdi I don't have to pick a poison, the ecu hits that perfect AF ratio, my e-tdi never smokes, and NOX is as minimized as possible. As I stated earlier E-TDIs have cleaner emissions than M-TDIs, for many people the worse emissions is a drawback of the M-TDIs.

[jackbombay]

The ECU in an E-TDI does not just put a limit on boost as a wastegate does. When you request X amount of fuel the ECU adjusts the boost for that amount of fuel, the ECU is in control of AF ratios at all times. Also, a stock E-TDI system has an EGR system that reduces NOx by an additional %40. Yes, the EGR system certainly has its downfalls as well...

[rallydiesel]

The whole point of the mTDI conversion is that you have CONTROL. Unless you have the ability to program the ECU at your house, you don't have full user control of the eTDI system. You give up the sophistication for the durability and simplicity of the mTDI.

I don't think the OP really gets the point of the mTDI concept. Either that or they are trolling.  :roll:

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

I've searched and searched and read countless threads but am struggling to find a mTDI solution that REALLY works.

So when we shot this video of a 5 Cyl TDI from Europe is was just
our imagination? We built this M-TDI pump in the shop from scratch
combing his E-TDI pump and a 5 Cyl NA Eurovan pump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6fYi13CBlU

When you dig you uncover little problems and issues with all of them, smoke, starting, lack of power etc
There was no smoke at start up and sounds great, my customer is
putting it into a T4 Van as we speek.

Anybody have a 100% solution yet, if so what is the recipe? or will the mTDI remain a flawed compromise?

Mythical Giles?? what do you mean??? i might take offence
to that comment.

Giles
 

[blackdogvan]

I know that the 4bt pumps are & have always been m-tdi & have the correct cam plate & guts to work for us but don't they have a really low max rpm gov (like below 3500rpm?) I know the dodge 6bt's have a 3200rpm redline on the tach for what thats worth. They can be found pretty easily but it seems that they require lots of work & setup to be made drivable in vw. I suppose if found really cheap & shipped off to to a educated pump builder for a complete cal. I just wouldn't expect to drop one in & have it drive well without some of the black pump arts that guys like Tintin, Karl & obviously Giles have found through testing & a true inderstanding of their operation. Perhaps the original post speakes to too people being told any DI pump (like a unmodified 4bt VE pump) will run their m-tdi in a way you would hope for after doing the swap.

[truckinwagen]

well, I am buying  one of the pumps Libbybapa is selling, and they seem to be for the 4BTA, so we will see what a uneducated guy like me can do to get it to work on a VW(admittedly an IDI but similar in application anyway)

[jackbombay]

For any amount of air, you can set the amount of fuel.  

  My understanding of the LDA is that it just puts a limit on the max amount of fuel that can be injected per amount of air, so you could have 10 PSI at half throttle, but you might only need 5 psi to completely burn the fuel that is being injected.

[truckinwagen]

correct me if I am wrong, but that's the way a diesel works, without a throttle plate the diesel is throttled by how lean or rich it runs, and by doing so reduces parasitic drag of intake vacuum.

[jackbombay]

correct me if I am wrong, but that's the way a diesel works, without a throttle plate the diesel is throttled by how lean or rich it runs, and by doing so reduces parasitic drag of intake vacuum.

  That is generally true, but on a computer controlled diesel the fuel and air are both controlled by the computer (no throttle plate like a gasser though) to maximize economy and minimize emissions while older diesel will always be making as much boost as possible based on the fuel burned.