Anyone with an mTDI that really works?

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

What you're asking the people who've spent the time to research and develope theire own M-TDI pumps is give away there hard earned tricks and methods.

Giles,

The irony to your post is that the GTD forum was built as an open-source community.  And Regcheeseman is one of the more significant contributors to that community.  The backbone of this forum ALREADY does research, sometimes expensive and destructive research, and "gives away their hard-earned tricks".  That's what it's all about.

Commercial vendors were originally not welcome at GTD, and their eventual entry to the forum caused some of the key original open-souce participants to quit & stop posting.  You remember this well, I'm sure.  It's a fact, all that history is still here to be read.

Regcheeseman has every right to ask his question here.  There's no other place where he is likely to get as good an answer to it, as from the community at the GTD forum.  

If you don't want to participate in the conversation, then nobody is forcing you to.

Ok here goes
Machine the AAZ housing to accept the 20mm shaft and seal
Use the AAZ main body and most internals and swap in the TDI
Head, camplate and misc related parts. then modify the LDA to
give more fuel at the top end and not the bottom end.

this might be a bit vague but i can't go into specific details of what
i do in the shop.
.
Regcheeseman asked what parts we use and that's it.

Giles

[zukgod1]

>>>cue Jaws theme<<<   :shock:

Andrew

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[regcheeseman]

Thanks Otis! My reply would have been brief and possibly less eloquent.

Giles and anyone else who is prepared to share.....

I have a 10mm TDI pump, would this be a suitable donor or does it have to be the 11?

why the need for greater top end fuel delivery? It was my basic understanding that the TDI engine was merely at a higher pressure than a IDI.

Or is the extra fuel just there to retain the tdi power output level?

[jtanguay]

What you're asking the people who've spent the time to research and develope theire own M-TDI pumps is give away there hard earned tricks and methods.

Giles,

The irony to your post is that the GTD forum was built as an open-source community.  And Regcheeseman is one of the more significant contributors to that community.  The backbone of this forum ALREADY does research, sometimes expensive and destructive research, and "gives away their hard-earned tricks".  That's what it's all about.

Commercial vendors were originally not welcome at GTD, and their eventual entry to the forum caused some of the key original open-souce participants to quit & stop posting.  You remember this well, I'm sure.  It's a fact, all that history is still here to be read.

Regcheeseman has every right to ask his question here.  There's no other place where he is likely to get as good an answer to it, as from the community at the GTD forum.  

If you don't want to participate in the conversation, then nobody is forcing you to.

Ok here goes
Machine the AAZ housing to accept the 20mm shaft and seal
Use the AAZ main body and most internals and swap in the TDI
Head, camplate and misc related parts. then modify the LDA to
give more fuel at the top end and not the bottom end.

this might be a bit vague but i can't go into specific details of what
i do in the shop.
.
Regcheeseman asked what parts we use and that's it.

Giles

without spilling the beans, well done, Giles.

even if you did explain the whole process though, not just anyone could reproduce what you do.  its mostly the calibration, and that in itself is worth it IMO.

but for those wishing to build themselves an mTDI pump a la homebrew, there is TONS of information all over this forum!!!  Tintin has explained how to get an mTDI pump to run half decent with a 1.9 AAZ pump and some other parts.  

so don't pounce on Giles for not giving away his trade secrets (mostly in the calibration/tuning - do you see alligator tuning giving away their secrets or any other tuning company???).  it's his bread and butter here guys...  just pay him the money to get it done right (just like his performance rebuilds...) or talk to Tintin or some other users on this forum for advice.

[spencebm]

I think it's great to give away secrets and share with others what you have learned.  Being selfish will get us no where fast and I am tired about money keeping people from helping one another.  Giles does great work I am sure, but to say just give him money and let him do everything right is just F*&^ing stupid.  Just my two cents.  If I had secrets that Giles needed to save him a bunch of money then I wouldn't hesitate to give them to him, it's the right thing to do.  Too bad the world revolves around money.  All you haters that don't help others will get what is coming to you... :wink:

[fairweather]

but to say just give him money and let him do everything right

Some folks call that making a wise decision. Know your limits and abilities otherwise you'll spend twice as much for half as good.

[SR Heer]

Diesology 101:
In the end no matter how you put it - or do it - getting the kind of education that matters the most is not cheep!  I respect those who want to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps - and yet I also respect those who have paid their dues - Yes I pick people brains all the time but find out that one man's hull is another man's bird feed - There are knowledge predators and then there are knowledge scavengers but the survivalist at one point or another will have to resort to a bit of both.

Even though we don't mind helping others out we are ultimately out to help ourselves because without one's being helped or educated there is less and less chance for any technological advance, shared or unshared.  Belittling others usually never helps educate - while when incorrect and making that acknowledgment does. However communication is vital - and it is a good thing that there are enough diesel users to go around which sort of tames the dog eat dog world that we live in.

It is just like with anything situation in life when one understands it more they can better trouble shoot and then fixing becomes a matter of time!
When it comes to diesels many times we are used to thinking in terms of nuts and bolts but as always there is the human factor. The whole purpose of this forum as I see it is educational which in fact has been the best tool for my sharing in learning so far - thanks to all those who contribute - our goal can be to just get along because it take all of us to make this diesel world go around!
Thanks
Stephen

[jtanguay]

I think it's great to give away secrets and share with others what you have learned.  Being selfish will get us no where fast and I am tired about money keeping people from helping one another.  Giles does great work I am sure, but to say just give him money and let him do everything right is just F*&^ing stupid.  Just my two cents.  If I had secrets that Giles needed to save him a bunch of money then I wouldn't hesitate to give them to him, it's the right thing to do.  Too bad the world revolves around money.  All you haters that don't help others will get what is coming to you... :wink:

Giles has the proper equipment to get the pump fine tuned so that it will run the way it was intended the first time you put it on, and i'm sure that it was not cheap!!!  he pretty much said how to make (or how he makes) an mTDI pump up top, without going into great detail.  despite what you might think, i don't think that he's profiting greatly from his pumps.  if you compare what other shops charge vs what you get, he should charge more...  think of it like Capitalism.  sharing his tricks would be more like Communism...  :lol: then everyone could potentially do it themselves.

if you piece together the information on this thread, you will find exactly what is needed to create your mTDI pump (no spoon feeding here).  but just don't cry if it doesn't work right...  and when you price an AAZ pump with a TDI pump, you're pretty much at a grand, unless you get a shot AAZ pump + TDI pump, which need to be rebuilt anyway (which Giles does...) and if you're wondering what your pump might run like, save yourself the work and go buy prothe's mTDI pump off his site.

[spencebm]

Well at least no one is up Giles' butt!! :wink:

[blackdogvan]

if you piece together the information on this thread, you will find exactly what is needed to create your mTDI pump (no spoon feeding here). but just don't cry if it doesn't work right... and when you price an AAZ pump with a TDI pump, you're pretty much at a grand, unless you get a shot AAZ pump + TDI pump, which need to be rebuilt anyway (which Giles does...) and if you're wondering what your pump might run like, save yourself the work and go buy prothe's mTDI pump off his site.

Don't forget the westyventures option. $1200 for a brand new pump tuned to run properly right out of the wrapper.

Its too bad Karl doesn't post over here any more, he knows his stuff.

[rallydiesel]

Experts (Tintin, Giles, etc.) have already described in as great detail as possible how to make a mTDI pump. The key is the "tuning"!!!! Anyone can slap eTDI parts into an AAZ pump. It's not that hard. The money you spend for a mTDI pump is the hours of tuning that goes into it.

Giles just said he has made 6 mTDI pumps, so he obviously isn't making his living off these special purpose custom builds. He's not hiding info, you just can't tell someone how to tune a pump with one-size-fits-all instructions.

 :x

[jackbombay]

I was at a dyno shootout this summer and all the e-TDIs on the dyno were smoking a heckuvalot more than mine.

  Just wondering, how much power did those e-tdis make and how much power did your m-tdi make?

  Also, this discussion is based on stock engines, I think, yet you're using the emissions of cars that have been altered as your baseline for how much an e-tdi pollutes?

    If m-tdis have cleaner emissions than e-tdis, what was the incentive for VW to make tdis computer controlled? FYI a stock e-tdi emits at least %40 less NOx than an M-tdi.

   You seem to have shown up to throw down "part of a story" and now won't take the time to respond to a few questions?

[fairweather]

I won't believe anything about emissions till I see some reality backing that claim up

Still waiting for an answer to this one before we can move on....

Dogma doesn't count. :shock:

[Typrus]

My 1Z eTDI blows 30% opacity on emissions testing. LOL.

But before the performance mods, it threw out maybe 5%. It also had a lot less power. lol. Give and take. Then again, we do have a stock downpipe and exhaust at the moment...... More resistance, higher EGT's, more NOx. But thats not the point being discussed, so I'll hush now.

[jackbombay]

I won't believe anything about emissions till I see some reality backing that claim up

Still waiting for an answer to this one before we can move on....

   Claim? So I'm dishonest and making up BS now?

   If I post something that sounds like a fact it is because I read it from a highly credible source, or have had enough experience with it firsthand that I have no problem reporting "it" as a fact.

  Moving on...

   The quote below is from the EGR reduction procedure from TDIclub, I have snipped out bits of the EGR reduction procedure that are unimportant to this discussion and bolded the important bit. With this EGR adaptation done there is still EGR flow, just not as much as stock so the NOx emissions will be even worse with the EGR system completely removed which must be done for all M-TDIs and for any TDI--->Vanagon swap, at least I have never seen a Vanagon with a TDI complete with functioning EGR, BUT this thread is not about swapping TDIs into vanagons, there are many other cars that TDI go into on a regular basis, and we are comparing E-tdis to M-tdis, a stock e-tdi which has an EGR system.

Recalibrating the EGR System of a VW TDI

A VW specific scan tool such as VAG-COM is required for this procedure.....  <snip>  ......Note that the display shows a default adaptation value of 32768 and shows approximately 250 +/- 20 mg/stroke of air intake volume... <snip> ...enter 33768 as the new adaptation value, and select "test". Note that the displayed air intake volume changes, usually to about 370 mg/stroke. (If you don't care about road-legal NOx emission limits then leave it at 33768. [Depending on the usage cycle, NOx at this setting can be increased by as much as 40%]) If all is well and you have a seting that you are happy with which results in an intake air volume of 370 mg/stroke or just a hair less, enter "save".

  Above quote from TDIclub FAQ

  And here is what I had posted earlier,

FYI a stock e-tdi emits at least %40 less NOx than an M-tdi.

   Which is pretty damn accurate, with the Vag-com EGR adaptation NOX can increase up to %40, but eliminating the EGR all together makes the NOx output even greater, how much? Hard to say, depends on several factors, but I was certainly pretty close with my original statement.

  Your turn