Author Topic: Weird bearing issue with new bearings. need suggestions (Read 15141 times)

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:03:40 pm »

Quote from: "burn_your_money"

What is your piston ring end gap?

What do you mean by that?
what is the gap in the rings when they are compressed?

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:06:53 pm »

If you mean when they are compressed uhhh 5mm? i'm not sure i didn't really measure it.

My friend broke a small piece off the oil ring on one of them :evil: being too rough putting them into the block while i lined up the rods with the crank. but it wasn't messed up or anything the gap on that one ring is like 15mm compressed.

I don't think i know what you're refering to though

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:11:30 pm »

Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"

100X as per the previous suggestions above... 99 times out of 100 a tight bottom end means one or more main or rod caps got interchanged..

could that really make it impossible to turn though when the caps are tight?

I really think now that i just got the wrong bearings :cry:

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:17:49 pm »

Those are the right bearings for your engine... chances are they are *not* the issue.

The bearing caps are line-bored so very very specific to each other... even one in the wrong orientation or order will completely bind up the engine. If you consider the fine bearing clearances at work (thousandths of an inch) here you can see how that can be the case.

At this point you may want to take a break and re-group ? I just saw the part about needing to mallet one piston in place and a broken piece of oil ring... and you're definitely gonna want to read up on "ring gap" and the use of Plastigage to confirm bearing clearance.

If 'twere my engine I'd give serious thought to pulling the tough piston out to see why it was so tough... no mallet should be required for engine assembly. I've seen several broken rings in my day... none of which left any visible scratches on the walls during testing. :wink:

burnt_servo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:18:48 pm »

Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"

They are either backwards or the right way right now. I kept them in order i just don't know now which end is 1 or 4. Know what i mean?

as i mentioned beofe the notches in the bearing shells go together , where the bearings sit in the block and the cap , or rod and rod cap , also have a spot for the notch . so just put the notches together .

with the pistons make sure they are in the right direction .

the mains will be numbered , can't recall what numbers are on the rod bearings , but many times they are marked at the factory ( look for punch marks on the side , near the parting line of the cap and rod , the marks will be the same for a rod and cap that belong together ) .

btw #1 cylinder is ALWAYS the front of the engine , #4 is always the rear of the engine , and the rear of the engine is always hooked up to the transmission .

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:33:58 pm »

Quote

btw #1 cylinder is ALWAYS the front of the engine , #4 is always the rear of the engine , and the rear of the engine is always hooked up to the transmission

Yeah that's how i look at it. My friend i think looks at it backwards to that.
Just some mis-communication.
OK! so i see the notches in the caps and i guess i'll take out piston number 4. He was a stubborn bastard.

I got "Standard" rings not over bore or anything. I used a ball hone so the walls are a little rough for the rings. You can push the other three in by hand. i just found it easier to use a piece of wood and tap it in. The fourth was an issue so i'll take it out.

thanks so much guys.

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:20:52 pm »

augh...

ok so i took them all out. they all pushed right out the block easily except for the stubborn one. it seemed to be stuck to the crank? i had to tap it out with a 1/4 drive extention and a finishing hammer (very lightly tapped it out) to get it to leave the crank then it pushed out fairly easily.

I've been staring at the rods and caps for about 20 minutes now and i just CANT see any marks that would match them up. I see the audi symbol, "BER", "80" and notches but all the notches are the same!!! I guess i'll have to just try all the different combinations. so thats like 4! (factorial) thats a lot of combinations, 24 actually. I really want to avoid doing that. :roll:
perhaps i can match machining marks?

Am i just an idiot? are there markings that are supposed to make this easier?

cyrus #1 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:25:28 pm »

My rods don't appear to have any sort of distinguishing marks.

All they have is the number 114 stamped onto the bottom of the cap.

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:28:34 pm »

yeah mine say 95...
how do you go about this? i'm really screwed if i can't match them up because i can't take the crank out.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:42:50 pm »

The mains bearing caps sometimes have numbers cast into 'em... dunno that I've ever actually seen them however... I've always punched my own dots.

I've never seen any distinguishing marks on the rods.

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:47:11 pm »

im getting really exhausted from coming out from under the car and holding my arms up and doing up nuts and undoing them.. what a work out. and trying to turn the engine over.

i figured i could at least have 1 cap on correctly so i loosened all nuts cap nuts off. then tightened one at a time and tried to turn it over. If any of the nuts are just ratchet tight it's near impossible to turn over.
while under the car i have to put both feet on the wall and do a squatting motion with both hands on the end of a breaker bar to turn it over with just one of the con rods on snug (not even torqued).

I guess i'll take all the pistons out AGAIN and try and do it one at a time.
That would work. 1 piston in and just go through the caps until one works...

and if that doesn't work i'll try putting my old bearings in and seeing if that does anything.

when you change bearings is it a MUST that you change the mains at the same time?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #26 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:01:10 pm »

You know that the con rod bolts are stretch bolts right?

I think you should buy some plastigage so you know what's going on. They have have sent you oversized bearings.

What do the insides of the bearings look like?

burnt_servo · « **Reply #27 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:05:10 pm »

pull the #1 main upper ( the one that is in the block ) it will be worn out if the rings are worn to the point of needing replacement .

WAIT don't do that ..... it can be a *** to get out , then back in again .

changing the #3 upper main in the car is a *** too

next time you attempt this , actually pull the motor out of the car , it will make it much easier

also vw updated the oiling system in it's diesels with a bigger oil pump , and a full groove bearing on #4 main .

something to try , get a set of calipers and measure the thickness of the old bearings , and compare them to the new ones .... the size should be almost identical.

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #28 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:05:24 pm »

aw frick i didn't know they were stretch bolts.....

seriously? is that what has been the problem all along...
they have splines in them though how would you change them? knock the new ones back in excactly where the splines are?

the insides of the new ones look grey, glazed with something. since being in there and turned they have some shiny spots.

frick how much are con rod bolts going to set me back. Im runing out of cash here...
guess i'll go buy new bolts... augh

burnt_servo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:13:33 pm »

i've reused the rod bolts on more than a few engines . and several recent vw diesels , with no worries . that also includes my car which just recently spent close to 8 hours over 4000rpm with no problems .

as long as they give a normal torque value , like 50 inch pounds , it can be reused .

if the torque value is like 50 foot pounds + 3/4 of a turn , then it is a true stretch bolt anbd can't be reused .