Author Topic: Vanagon progress  (Read 58653 times)

Reply #75September 04, 2008, 10:32:48 pm

jackbombay

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« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2008, 10:32:48 pm »
Quote from: "Luckypabst"
Nice! I like the sealed effect there for maximum efficiency. Did you also delete the OEM oil cooler? There's been so much discussion lately about oil cooling capacity that it has me worried about things. Oh - looks like no aux. fan either?

Ultimately I'll have the air intake snaking in above the oil cooler but will mostly seal off that right side cubby hole like I did on the left to force as much air through the cooler when tooling down the highway.

Chris


  I left the oil heat exchanger in pace to get the oil up to temp quicker in the winter, it gets VERY cold here.

  Aux fan? To pull air through the oil cooler? I want to install one, when going over long steep mountain passes in 2nd at 35 or so, the oil still gets up to 230* which is not bad, but lower is better  8)

  My intake air is drawn from just behind the license plate to the right side a bit, that whole channel is connected to the D-pillar, but mine is an 82, used to be air cooled, I'm not sure if/how the air passages back there vary over the years.

Reply #76September 04, 2008, 10:40:53 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2008, 10:40:53 pm »
Quote

  I left the oil heat exchanger in pace to get the oil up to temp quicker in the winter, it gets VERY cold here.

    My intake air is drawn from just behind the license plate to the right side a bit, that whole channel is connected to the D-pillar, but mine is an 82, used to be air cooled, I'm not sure if/how the air passages back there vary over the years.


I'd like to have the OEM cooler in for the winter too but I'll probably delete it for now until I can make a longer stub to catch both the OEM cooler and the Volvo adapter.

I haven't looked at the area near the license plate - mine is an '82 also but stock diesel. That's a good tip!

On a side note - looks like I do have to move the battery. The oil cooler is larger than expected and the fittings occupy part of the same space as the battery. This will solve some other problems too and provide a nice perch for an airbox but I don't really want it in the passenger compartment.

Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #77September 04, 2008, 10:52:50 pm

jackbombay

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« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2008, 10:52:50 pm »
Did the stock diesels not come with the battery behind the passenger seat? That space behind the drivers seat is sealed and does vent to outside, it is a ligit spot to put the battery, but I know what you mean, a gallon of powerful acid in the van is not the safest thing to have around.

Reply #78September 04, 2008, 10:59:41 pm

jackbombay

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« Reply #78 on: September 04, 2008, 10:59:41 pm »
OK the hole I was talking baout for the intake is actually just to the left (drivers side) of the passenger side tail lights, here are a couple pics, I used some VW parts and some Volvo parts to get from the air box to the hole in question,


Reply #79September 10, 2008, 11:20:04 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2008, 11:20:04 pm »
Waiting on the uber-trick fabricated aluminium battery box...

The first run tonight with an oil temp gauge - stock cooling system, air temp a cool 65-70 after a late summer rain - 10 minutes up a steep, narrow winding road resulted in oil temps of about 250 degrees (fahrfegheit?).

I wonder what it was doing last July climbing Towne Pass out of Death Valley in the afternoon at near 130 degrees? :evil:

Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #80September 22, 2008, 09:03:54 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2008, 09:03:54 pm »
Battery is moved! I used a nice fabbed aluminum battery box that I found on Ebay and it just fit the Group 41 battery with the ends trimmed off. Soon I'll buy a slightly shorter sealed battery since it's now in the living quarters.

Also I dumped the 4ga cables for 1/0ga so no starting issues, hopefully. And I trimmed back all the other wires (alt charge, fusebox power, 2nd battery charge) and realized that the first inch or so of each was heavily corroded from being near the battery. Now they're all terminated at the starter so no more corrosion issues there. I still need to clean the connection at the glow plug fuse and probably replace my bum camper battery to eliminate any other potential electric problems.

Closed:



Open:
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #81October 04, 2008, 10:02:46 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2008, 10:02:46 pm »
Chuggin' along...

The oil cooler is installed now, in the passenger side cubby hole behind where the battery used to be.

No road tests yet - my girlfriend pulled up just as I was cleaning up my mess. Right now I've bypassed the OEM oil to water cooler with the intent of possibly adding it back in to the system eventually. If this current system proves itself, I'll leave the OEM cooler out and plug the two water hoses.

Here's the opening I cut to allow airflow from the intake scoop through to the underside of the van. Also visible is the deflector I made from .125 aluminium to keep rocks from being thrown through the heat exchanger from the tire and to direct exhaust air to the rear of the van:


Cooler installed and plumbed. I chose to run the hoses this way to leave the most room possible to put an air box on the battery tray. It looks kinda terrible but I haven't put any effort into cleaning up after moving the battery into the passenger area:


Finally the plumbing at the oil filter, mostly obscured by the coolant hose. I could only guess at the fittings I needed when I was dreaming up this project - the two straight fittings at the adapter will be swapped soon for 90s to shorten the hose and get a more favorable hose angle:


Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #82October 04, 2008, 10:04:26 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2008, 10:04:26 pm »
I wanted to add that the threaded stub for holding the Volvo/Wahler oil cooler adapter was too long (the OEM Volvo piece) and I had to shorten it by about half an inch and cut another 4-5 threads in the "long" end.

Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #83October 04, 2008, 10:15:36 pm

Vincent Waldon

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« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2008, 10:15:36 pm »
I like the idea of quick oil warmups as provided by the stock oil-water intercooler (gets cold in Edmonton) but also see the need for extra oil cooling (gets hot in Edmonton) which kinda implies another Volvo-style sandwich plate if I want it thermostatically controlled.

Somehow two sandwich plates stacked on top of each other gives me the willies in terms of all those extra seals... and lowers the oil filter closer (probably too close) to the front MK3 subframe.

Were you thinking of stacking the sandwich plate or did you have another thought in mind ??

Andrew: if you're reading this thread... seems to me I remember reading once that you have run both air/air and air/water oil coolers on at least one of your beasts ??
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #84October 04, 2008, 10:47:26 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2008, 10:47:26 pm »
Yea the plan was a double stack. My problem is the bottom of the oil filter hitting the lower coolant hose on the van.

I probably rarely see less than about 20 degrees (f) and it didn't seem to warm up terribly fast even with the oil to water cooler. We do routinely get above 100 degrees, even near 130 over the hill in Death Valley.

Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #85October 09, 2008, 07:48:17 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #85 on: October 09, 2008, 07:48:17 pm »
The same super-scientific test run gave oil temps of about 220 - 230 degrees after climbing the same hill with an air temp of around 80 degrees. Water temps are a bit lower as well.

More realistically, on the highway it seems to like 190 - 200 degrees.

I might add a cooling fan in the future depeding on long term results.

Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #86October 26, 2008, 08:05:04 pm

Luckypabst

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« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2008, 08:05:04 pm »
That oil cooler isn't quite as efficient as I'd hoped, with oil temps still reaching 250 on some long climbs and then dropping slowly after reaching the top and cruising/coasting.

I need to add a wall to isolate the right side pillar from the engine bay to force more air through the cooler and allow less to pass the engine. There may be a cooling fan in the future as well, which was part of the original plan.

Plumbing finalized and cleaned up. Degreaser is harsh on aluminum...



Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #87October 27, 2008, 07:01:19 am

HarryMann

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« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2008, 07:01:19 am »
A nice tidy spot, that... but 120C in October doesn't bode too well...



EGT seen over back of panel creeping up to 700C; Oil temp 110C; Oil pressure 35 psi; Boost 12 psi, 14 at times (10 minutes of 2nd gear mountain climbing, would just about pull 3rd between hairpins)

1.9TD AAZ with IC, 2.5" exhaust; Garret T2 with wasetegate bleed; 19 row oil cooler up-front... Doka circa 2 ton AUW

OAT was not high though, at a guess we're about 5,000 ft  in Andorra..

As you say, engine compartment needs to be blocked off and a big fan, I tried that spot with a 10" fan (in floor where your cooler is) all sealed pulling air through a pickups tunnel, so not directly comparable... my cooler was in the tunnel leading forward, but far too small, had good flow through it, but no great shakes, maybe 5C max reduction...

Air will not be coming down that tunnel at 50~60 mph, so at the moment you have mainly radiative cooling, about 2~5% of convection possible.

Smoke tablets can be useful, from plumbers merchants... after all... Who knows where the flow goes... Not me

Yet  :)

Reply #88October 27, 2008, 10:39:22 am

Luckypabst

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« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2008, 10:39:22 am »
I was going to mention that my EGTs run upwards of 1250 compared to your 700, then I realized you were speaking Celcius...

Oh yea - your steering wheel's on the wrong side! :P

I'm not giving up yet and I'm not into running 30' of oil hose. Gotta see what improvements the divider wall gives but as it sits, it's better than with the OEM cooler. Maybe smoke tablets and a little one-chair trailer would be helpful (once I teach Alexis how to drive a vanagon!).

Highest temps were seen after the 8 mile climb to 5500'. On the flats it'll hold closer to 200F.


Chris
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy

Reply #89October 27, 2008, 10:59:59 am

HarryMann

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« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2008, 10:59:59 am »
Quote
On the flats it'll hold closer to 200F


Yes, hope it's OK to be playing devil's advocate a bit and giving my wee oil cooling story... ?

In hot summer, wanting to cruise at 60 or even 70 at times, and then pulling up motorway hills with a bit of headwind, maybe doing 55/60 minimum, up go those temps... seriously, IDIs generate heat like no tomorrow, but maybe a VNT or higher AR turbine would lower that a bit, certianly EGTs

But I just could not risk a brand new engine... I wanted to know I would arrive in fair condition 1,000 miles or more later. So did the missus!

You may get half way there and be acceptable, but there's nothing like knowing that fresh air at 60 mph is impinging right across the full face of the cooler, and cooling will go up by 13% as speed increase to 70... alaso battering a vanagon into a headwind, cooling goes up just the same of course.