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#15
by
theman53
on 10 Feb, 2014 07:05
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I figured that would be the same for either turbo, but the T25 exhaust manifold has way more room than the stock vw in the mk2. So if it is similar to the mk2, it may work better than the garret. The holset is small physically, the he221w I have is smaller than the K14 off of an aaz in circumference, but is a tick wider.
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#16
by
RabbitJockey
on 10 Feb, 2014 07:12
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i wonder if it would take much to adapt the vw trapezoid to a t25 flange.
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#17
by
Gizmoman
on 10 Feb, 2014 07:17
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what all is done to your engine? . . .
The short list - A medium port job on the new head and a giles pump tuned for 120-150 HP
also, there is plenty of intake left to build onto if you cut right at your weld or a little below. . .
I was thinking of getting two 1-1/4 aluminum 180's and cutting them in half. I already cut the stock bottom off and there is definitely enough to weld to but it would be difficult to blend the tubes into the long "bowl". I'm thinking a chunk of aluminum 1-1/4 thick wold be easier to work with but well see. While it may be wise to stick with the K-14 and see how the new IC behaves, I really don't want to mess with this much longer. Besides, a different turbo may call for a different intake design and I only want to build the second one once. Not only that but I really don't like the turbo spitting oil. I think it's possibly just working too hard.
Thanks bbob, but The Holset sounds like a good route as I'd like to make the install as simple as possible. I really don't want it to hit hard though or I'll soon be replacing the transmission. That was one of the reasons for wanting the VNT-17 as I might be able to smooth out the boost.
Does the Holset have a similar adapter available like the 4-bolt K-14, or will I need to fab something up?
another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
I didn't have any bracket on the turbo when I bought the van. I did build one to help carry the load of the turbo and the IC, but when I got it, it was connected only by the four bolts to the manifold only (it also came loose twice).
Thanks guys for all the pointers. Got some thinking to do. . .
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#18
by
RabbitJockey
on 10 Feb, 2014 07:34
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what all is done to your engine? . . .
The short list - A medium port job on the new head and a giles pump tuned for 120-150 HP
also, there is plenty of intake left to build onto if you cut right at your weld or a little below. . .
I was thinking of getting two 1-1/4 aluminum 180's and cutting them in half. I already cut the stock bottom off and there is definitely enough to weld to but it would be difficult to blend the tubes into the long "bowl". I'm thinking a chunk of aluminum 1-1/4 thick wold be easier to work with but well see. While it may be wise to stick with the K-14 and see how the new IC behaves, I really don't want to mess with this much longer. Besides, a different turbo may call for a different intake design and I only want to build the second one once. Not only that but I really don't like the turbo spitting oil. I think it's possibly just working too hard.
Thanks bbob, but The Holset sounds like a good route as I'd like to make the install as simple as possible. I really don't want it to hit hard though or I'll soon be replacing the transmission. That was one of the reasons for wanting the VNT-17 as I might be able to smooth out the boost.
Does the Holset have a similar adapter available like the 4-bolt K-14, or will I need to fab something up?
another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
I didn't have any bracket on the turbo when I bought the van. I did build one to help carry the load of the turbo and the IC, but when I got it, it was connected only by the four bolts to the manifold only (it also came loose twice).
Thanks guys for all the pointers. Got some thinking to do. . .
i think with it being a 1.9L and mild porting with good flowing intake and an intercooler it's possible you have too much engine for the turbo. especially with the giles pump that continues to give full fueling into upper rpms. lucas blew up his t3 with a heavily modded 1.6, so its definitely possible.
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#19
by
bbob203
on 10 Feb, 2014 07:37
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i wonder if it would take much to adapt the vw trapezoid to a t25 flange.
I don't think so. I held a t25 metal gasket up to my trapezoidal manifold and 2 of the holes line up perfect.
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#20
by
theman53
on 10 Feb, 2014 07:39
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtrthis is the manifold I used, only now it is 10.00 more than when I bought it. It is pretty good, the short side radius needed ported out some and so did the collector area, but other than that it was cast very well. It offsets the turbo behind #2 or #3 and I have about 1"less room to the firewall than the stock setup, but it is a lot lower as the stock set up goes toward the top of the engine. I would have to see a van in person to get the limitations of the space, but I am sure you could do it, just how much work would it be to get it to work.
As I said, break it in, drive it for a year, and then when you have actually had fun in it you can feel better working on it again.
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#21
by
RabbitJockey
on 10 Feb, 2014 08:08
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtr
this is the manifold I used, only now it is 10.00 more than when I bought it. It is pretty good, the short side radius needed ported out some and so did the collector area, but other than that it was cast very well. It offsets the turbo behind #2 or #3 and I have about 1"less room to the firewall than the stock setup, but it is a lot lower as the stock set up goes toward the top of the engine. I would have to see a van in person to get the limitations of the space, but I am sure you could do it, just how much work would it be to get it to work.
As I said, break it in, drive it for a year, and then when you have actually had fun in it you can feel better working on it again.
anything that puts the turbo back further on a vanagon is going to make it harder to get the oil drain set up properly. and also the way that subframe bar goes through that area is weird, so the ebay manifold would put the turbo further back and lower. i think an adapted stock manifold would probably work best, especially if 2 holes already line up for a t25, that would make it pretty easy to adapt.
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#22
by
libbydiesel
on 10 Feb, 2014 08:17
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another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
I didn't have any bracket on the turbo when I bought the van. I did build one to help carry the load of the turbo and the IC, but when I got it, it was connected only by the four bolts to the manifold only (it also came loose twice).
Thanks guys for all the pointers. Got some thinking to do. . .
That was a typo of mine. I meant to say 'back of the engine' rather than 'back of the turbo'.
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#23
by
theman53
on 10 Feb, 2014 08:58
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Yeah, I have only looked at pictures of the van, never touched one in person. I would definitely have to see it to see if it would work. That said, you could make your own manifold out of tubing and it would be better for your need. I have adapted a 2256 on the VW manifold and though it is not in the jeep yet, I don't think it will fit well. It makes it so much longer than needed.
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#24
by
Gizmoman
on 10 Feb, 2014 17:20
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Here are some shots for you to ponder. . .
One for some perspective:
[/img]
From the back, drivers side:
From in front of the rear tire looking back:
Same as above but closer:
From the top down with the lid removed:
Shot from just behind the back tire, drivers side:
I'm all in on this one guys, I need to decide on the best turbo (must have a seal on the compressor side).
I can fab just about anything required (tenacity, not skill), so while some decent matching of flanges is desired, that's not the highest priority. What I'm looking for is dependability, about 20 psi and enough air to provide 120+HP. I'd also like to stay below 800 bucks for the turbo. As I'm not a turbo technician, if there is some way to smooth out the boost so I don't wreck the transmission, that would be great as well. Oh, and did I mention I want it to spool instantly and keep boosting to 4K
Any suggestions or comments appreciated.
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#25
by
libbydiesel
on 10 Feb, 2014 17:39
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A VNT17 - VNT20 would meet all of your criteria except possibly cost.
Your EGT probe is post turbine...what max EGT are you running? I never even consider a post turbine install as it is variably inaccurate depending on the pressure difference across the turbine and the turbine efficiency.
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#26
by
745 turbogreasel
on 10 Feb, 2014 18:04
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Explains the alarm set at 1100 though.
I'd also consider trying to get the belly out of the turbo drain hose, that backing up could be your extra oil in the intake.
At least in the first pic it looks like a low spot, and you are already forced into a marginal slope.
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#27
by
Gizmoman
on 10 Feb, 2014 18:32
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A VNT17 - VNT20 would meet all of your criteria except possibly cost.
Your EGT probe is post turbine...what max EGT are you running? I never even consider a post turbine install as it is variably inaccurate depending on the pressure difference across the turbine and the turbine efficiency.
The EGT is pre-turbine right in the center of the casting.
What you see in the previous photo is the oxygen sensor or something like that. It was there when I bought it.
I'm with you on the VNT17 libby, just cant find one for less that 1300. Besides, I'd also have to do a very custom boost controller. I'd do it in a heartbeat if the unit was 800 - just cant find it.
Explains the alarm set at 1100 though.
I'd also consider trying to get the belly out of the turbo drain hose, that backing up could be your extra oil in the intake.
At least in the first pic it looks like a low spot, and you are already forced into a marginal slope.
The "1100" setting is my way of saying to myself, OK you are over the limit dude, back off or pay the piper. I usually back off at 1300. Trouble is, sometimes It's tough to do when your doing 55 and everyone else is doing 80 and your only at 1/2 pedal.
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#28
by
theman53
on 10 Feb, 2014 19:14
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I wish you lived closer. This is lock, stock, and barrel the issues I was having with my engine. Turns out the bigger turbo supplied enough air, but you maybe ok with the newer intercooler.
also it looks like you have plenty of room up top for the Holset, but would have to adapt the vw manifold or make your own. For a wastegated turbo I am really impressed with the holset I have on the 1.6. It was a ton of work, but worth the 30 or so years of technology they have put into them. If I were libby, I would do the vnt but I am not.
I have a used VNT. I actually have 2, one on the ALH in my 01, and one spare in the shed. My plan is to rebuild the one in the shed and put it on the car and sell the one on the car. I have no clue how many miles are on either turbo, but the one on the car works and the one off the car I wouldn't put on without rebuilding. If you are interested in the one on my ALH I would sell it for the 350 plus shipping. The guy here rebuilds them for 350, so you would be around your 800.00 mark...
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#29
by
Gizmoman
on 10 Feb, 2014 19:59
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I wish you lived closer. This is lock, stock, and barrel the issues I was having with my engine. Turns out the bigger turbo supplied enough air, but you maybe ok with the newer intercooler.
also it looks like you have plenty of room up top for the Holset, but would have to adapt the vw manifold or make your own. For a wastegated turbo I am really impressed with the holset I have on the 1.6. It was a ton of work, but worth the 30 or so years of technology they have put into them. If I were libby, I would do the vnt but I am not.
I have a used VNT. I actually have 2, one on the ALH in my 01, and one spare in the shed. My plan is to rebuild the one in the shed and put it on the car and sell the one on the car. I have no clue how many miles are on either turbo, but the one on the car works and the one off the car I wouldn't put on without rebuilding. If you are interested in the one on my ALH I would sell it for the 350 plus shipping. The guy here rebuilds them for 350, so you would be around your 800.00 mark...
Thanks theman, Here's one recommended by a fellow enthusiast for $925:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-VW-B5-5-BHW-Passat-TDI-Garrett-VT1749VA-VNT17-Turbo-Turbocharger-04-05-/291010456422?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c1932b66&vxp=mtr. Any thoughts on how well this would work on my IDI would be appreciated.
I also like the sound of your offer of the used one you have - is it a VNT 17 or 15?. The linkage while a chore to work out the details is something I could be up to I believe. Hopefully I could bug libby once or twice after going over his informative posts on the subject
From what I gather, the VNT-17 would give me a much broader range and soften the "hit" as I mentioned earlier. The down side is possibly several weekends of messing around getting it to work properly.