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#15
by
shorttimer
on 09 Nov, 2012 11:07
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Please keep us informed how it works.
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#16
by
Swartzvw
on 09 Nov, 2012 12:59
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Please keep us informed how it works.
Will do.
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#17
by
carrizog60
on 11 Nov, 2012 07:48
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what about adding springs on the outside of the can?
those with the coils closed...
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#18
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 12 Nov, 2012 09:02
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what about adding springs on the outside of the can?
those with the coils closed...
doesnt work very well, thats how my turbo is setup currently..
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#19
by
carrizog60
on 17 Nov, 2012 11:24
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isnt the same as a stronger spring inside the can?
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#20
by
RabbitJockey
on 17 Nov, 2012 15:16
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isnt the same as a stronger spring inside the can?
I would think so, but look at the governor in our pumps three spring rates drives totally different than 1
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#21
by
libbydiesel
on 17 Nov, 2012 16:05
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The difference between a single spring and idle spring and the VW dual spring and idle setup is minimal. The single spring just makes the initial pedal movement more effective and the dual spring makes the pedal do less initially. Both are totally drivable and I don't find the dual spring any more pleasant than the single spring. Regardless, two springs acting in the same direction with neither reaching the limit of their motion effectively add their rates together and behave the same as one spring that is of the combined rate.
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#22
by
CrazyAndy
on 17 Nov, 2012 19:43
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Great link on a potential VNT17 boost controller, looks like that kind of unit would be a good choice if it works. Woudl it need a special linkage setup?
What's your range of movement on the vane linkages, just wondering?
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#23
by
RabbitJockey
on 20 Nov, 2012 10:00
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The difference between a single spring and idle spring and the VW dual spring and idle setup is minimal. The single spring just makes the initial pedal movement more effective and the dual spring makes the pedal do less initially. Both are totally drivable and I don't find the dual spring any more pleasant than the single spring. Regardless, two springs acting in the same direction with neither reaching the limit of their motion effectively add their rates together and behave the same as one spring that is of the combined rate.
well certainly you know far more about all that than i do, from what i read in the 1.5 sae paper, they used the other style governor because of being in a car which was lighter, the specific speed oriented single spring governor was more noticable, but i have never driven anything other than caged setups.
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#24
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 20 Nov, 2012 11:49
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The difference between a single spring and idle spring and the VW dual spring and idle setup is minimal. The single spring just makes the initial pedal movement more effective and the dual spring makes the pedal do less initially. Both are totally drivable and I don't find the dual spring any more pleasant than the single spring. Regardless, two springs acting in the same direction with neither reaching the limit of their motion effectively add their rates together and behave the same as one spring that is of the combined rate.
well certainly you know far more about all that than i do, from what i read in the 1.5 sae paper, they used the other style governor because of being in a car which was lighter, the specific speed oriented single spring governor was more noticable, but i have never driven anything other than caged setups.
never heard of/seen a VW pump WITHOUT a caged governor..
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#25
by
libbydiesel
on 20 Nov, 2012 12:40
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I've seen both caged and un-caged single springs in automotive use. The single spring does not equate to a single speed governor although I'm sure all single-speed applications use a single spring because the only benefit (arguable) to the dual spring is to adjust the feel of the pedal. The dual spring setup gives it more the feel of an older carb gas engine with primary and secondary that open in series.
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#26
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 20 Nov, 2012 13:40
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I've seen both caged and un-caged single springs in automotive use. The single spring does not equate to a single speed governor although I'm sure all single-speed applications use a single spring because the only benefit (arguable) to the dual spring is to adjust the feel of the pedal. The dual spring setup gives it more the feel of an older carb gas engine with primary and secondary that open in series.
never noticed my diesel having different pedal resistance based on throttle position, unlike my CIS gassers with the progressively opening throttle bodys..
thats the only thing i DONT like about my diesel, there is no "economy stop" for the throttle..
on the gasser, i usually never throttle it more than where you meet the resistance of the secondaries.. keeps the smileage alot better when you stay out of the secondaries
every vw diesel ive ever driven, has the same throttle pedal feel.. and its nothing like the resistance felt from the secondaries opening up..
not saying you are wrong, but maybe ive been doing something wrong?
even with the governor stock or shimmed solid, i never notice there being any extra resistance at any position in the throttle..
correct me if im wrong, but you arent supposed to be able to FEEL the governor in the pedal, are you?!
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#27
by
745 turbogreasel
on 20 Nov, 2012 13:48
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No, but you feel it in how the vehicle responds.
With a dual spring, you come to a hill, and have to mash the pedal. with the single spring, you hold the pedal steady, and the gov moves itself to full load to maintain speed.
some of the ALH cars have an annoying thing that pumps up under the gas pedal and gives that secondary resistance feel.
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#28
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 20 Nov, 2012 13:56
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No, but you feel it in how the vehicle responds.
With a dual spring, you come to a hill, and have to mash the pedal. with the single spring, you hold the pedal steady, and the gov moves itself to full load to maintain speed.
some of the ALH cars have an annoying thing that pumps up under the gas pedal and gives that secondary resistance feel.
ok, i totally buy that..
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#29
by
libbydiesel
on 21 Nov, 2012 17:44
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No, but you feel it in how the vehicle responds.
That is correct. It changes the performance characteristics, slightly.
With a dual spring, you come to a hill, and have to mash the pedal. with the single spring, you hold the pedal steady, and the gov moves itself to full load to maintain speed.
That is not correct. A single spring does not work like that unless it is a single spring with a rate specifically for that purpose. With a single spring with a rate the same as the main spring in a dual spring setup, you will need to mash the pedal almost the same amount when you hit a hill. The only difference with a dual spring setup is that the first part of the accelerator's motion causes less of an increase in fueling up to the point when the intermediate spring is fully compressed after which the performance is exactly the same.