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#60 by RabbitJockey on 01 Jun, 2012 15:22
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Maybe even a boost can that's designed to work for a higher psi will work I don't think they are very expensive.
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#61 by oldpoopie on 01 Jun, 2012 18:58
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Its definately not a gtb turbo.
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#62 by R.O.R-2.0 on 01 Jun, 2012 22:58
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Its definately not a gtb turbo.
i thought GTB just denoted 2nd generation VNT? -
#63 by golftd412000 on 02 Jun, 2012 01:20
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third génération
1 vnt20
2 gt20**
3gtb gta... -
#64 by R.O.R-2.0 on 02 Jun, 2012 09:17
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third génération
1 vnt20
2 gt20**
3gtb gta...
so, its a 2nd gen, GT2056V then?
sorry i havent came up with the right model name yet. but nobody will give me a straight answer as to what this turbo is/was, or what it was used on, or how big it is..
i really wish i knew more about this turbo. when i bought it from josh, i was under the impression that it was a 2052. then it turned out to be a 2056.. -
#65 by camboscams on 02 Jun, 2012 15:36
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This is a little off topic, but i just unstuck my vanes on vnt15 and massaged my linkage a little more, and man its is just nuts to drive. My linkage is set up as per Andrews instructions, with a boost can spring rate that correctly matches my boost limits. When it spools if im not in 1st (which it will peg a 20 pound gauge) It goes to 15 almost instantly and stay there. The learning curve for today is, is that when plumbing the inline boost can be sure and use as big of lines that you can, initially i used a pretty small line to supply it and it would over boost very easily until it could flow the required volume. Also Zero runout in the linkage is crucial or the vanes will soot up and not allow it to return to idle and be very annoying. But i am sold on running an operating fully functioning control setup regardless of the effort it takes to achieve it.
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#66 by oldpoopie on 02 Jun, 2012 17:54
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kermatdi may still have the specs on this turbo as they were the original vendor on them, even though street toys manufactured them. Call Paul, he may be able to answer your questions if you cant get thru to streettoys since he has closed shop. I'm fairly certain though that it started life as a basic 1st gen vnt20.
The turbo in this thread is what it started out as originally.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2722255-VNT20-Custom-Installation-by-JS-Performance!
But was modified with larger wheels. -
#67 by RabbitJockey on 02 Jun, 2012 19:10
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I don't understand all the vnt15 vnt17 names are those just the names tdi people gave them?
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#68 by libbydiesel on 02 Jun, 2012 19:28
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This is a little off topic, but i just unstuck my vanes on vnt15 and massaged my linkage a little more, and man its is just nuts to drive. My linkage is set up as per Andrews instructions, with a boost can spring rate that correctly matches my boost limits. When it spools if im not in 1st (which it will peg a 20 pound gauge) It goes to 15 almost instantly and stay there. The learning curve for today is, is that when plumbing the inline boost can be sure and use as big of lines that you can, initially i used a pretty small line to supply it and it would over boost very easily until it could flow the required volume. Also Zero runout in the linkage is crucial or the vanes will soot up and not allow it to return to idle and be very annoying. But i am sold on running an operating fully functioning control setup regardless of the effort it takes to achieve it.
You are one of the very few people who has experienced what I would call a properly controlled VNT on a 1.6TD. The experience is really remarkable. Having the vanes close proportional to load gives such an excellent feeling of gradual power delivery and yet if you hammer the pedal it's all right there.
Very fun and also kinda hard to describe. If the vanes get sticky take it on an extended highway grade and burn the carbon out.
More on topic with this thread, I think the boost can control is acceptable, but bear in mind that the vanes are always being pushed closed and result in too much boost for most situations and choking of the exhaust. If I am cruising along with minimal boost and then hammer the pedal, there is a moment before boost opens the vanes that I can feel a drop in power. At that moment of closing the vanes, the turbo is acting as an exhaust brake. When using just a boost can, the turbo is always either exhaust braking or boosting hard. That type of control is not as efficient and doesn't have as nice of a power delivery feel. I can understand choosing that method of control just for simplicity, but it isn't ideal. -
#69 by camboscams on 02 Jun, 2012 20:53
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Thank you Andrew that means a lot! Yea I've power braked it for a little while and that seems to clear them some but steep grades work best. Hopefully this go around the linkage is tight enough to not start the sticking process.
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#70 by RabbitJockey on 03 Jun, 2012 07:26
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I've never played with one on a bench but I thought the boost cans opened gradually unless u use a boost controller. Which even still is not as good as one with throttle input but would be better than a waste gated turbo by far
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#71 by libbydiesel on 03 Jun, 2012 08:58
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Boost cans always have a range of opening pressure unless controlled by a boost controller.
For any given fueling (load) there is a vane angle that I would call ideal. It is the vane angle that is most open that still produces enough boost to clear the smoke and keep EGTs below dangerous temps. For all partial load driving situations the ideal vane angle is somewhere in the middle and there is a wide range of vane angle more closed (which will produce excess boost and excess back pressure) and more open (which will waste fuel as excess smoke and will result in higher EGTs) that are less than ideal. If using just a boost can input, the vanes will always be more closed than the ideal angle for a given load except when fully floored and max boost is achieved. This results in excess back pressure, reduced engine efficiency and reduced power for that amount of fuel.
Here's how I'd grade the options based on how closely it resembles ideal.
Stationary geometry and no boost control = D-/F
Stationary geometry and boost control by bypassing turbine (wastegated turbo) = D
Geometry controlled by boost only = C
Geometry controlled by load only = C
Geometry controlled by load and boost controlled by bypassing turbine (wastegate) = B
Geometry controlled by boost and load = A (96%)
Geometry controlled by boost, load and rpm = A+ (100%)
All that said, it is fully understandable why someone would choose to use just a boost can to control vane angle as it is simple to install and yet does a reasonable job and yes, it is IMO a distinct improvement over using stationary geometry and a wastegate.
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#72 by keaton on 06 Jun, 2012 10:05
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see my sig for a standalone VGT controller. you need a ~$35 micocontroller, but then you can map vane position to RPM & TPS... or do target boost
http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/Quote from: Features8x8 map for VNT & LDA control
Use N75 solenoid based actuators
Live configuration via USB interface and graphical map editor (no special software needed)
Two VNT control modes:
* Duty Cycle map - Uses RPM/TPS info to set VNT actuator position. Additional dampening can be added to improve engine response. No map sensor needed for this setup.
* Target Pressure map - Specify requested pressure value on each control point. Vnt-lda will automatically move actuator until required pressure level is reached.
LDA table can be used to fine tune soot emissions and torque limiting on certain RPM-range.
Cheap and free :-)Quote from: Requires:
* RPM Engine speed sensor, use Honeywell GT101DC or alternator W-output as a source.
* TPS Throttle position sensor (like Bosch "001")
* MAP Manifold absolute pressure sensor for detecting amount of boost, for example 4bar Freescale MPX6400
* Arduino AVR-microcontroller board, servos, n75 (or similiar) solenoid & vacuum actuators
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#73 by RabbitJockey on 11 Jun, 2012 16:32
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Anything more conclusive??? It's been a week or so right? U usually do everything fast
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#74 by R.O.R-2.0 on 12 Jun, 2012 12:43
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Anything more conclusive??? It's been a week or so right? U usually do everything fast
no. i havent touched the car in that long.. i have a life. college finals are WAY more important.. and last week, i was homeless.. hard to work on a car that you dont have with you, when your homeless..
it still makes 7 psi boost. im still trying to figure out an EASY way to control the vanes.. i think im gonna go for a mix of wastegate control, and linkage/cable control as well..
have the rest of the week off tho, so im going to take the header/turbo back off for the 4th or 5th time, and im gonna wrap it, and figure out a vane control method..