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Ye 'Ol cold start thread
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Dec, 2011 09:48
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Sorry guys but it has to be done.
The car has become unreliable as to if it will start.. and its not even that cold out yet.
-10C this morning and I go out to start the car. Hit the glows for 15+ seconds let off and start cranking. nananananananana little bit of smoke rolling out from the pipe. Took 30 seconds of cranking and two glow sessions of 15 seconds to get it going, and even when it caught it only kind of rolled in to running. Like it was barely catching then a little bit more and so forth until it fully caught.
What could be causing my issues? I'm stumped. Battery is good, clearly after 30+ seconds of cranking and two 15+ second glows. Glow-plugs are brand new, they are fully manual and are individually fused. Each pulls 9-10 amps when cold. I have an electric full pump that i run when i am firing the plugs, so the pump is not losing prime. I also have clear fuel lines and they are both full of fuel going in to and leaving the pump.
Hmm come to think of it, I did notice a small diesel leak.. on the backside of the pump possibly.. Could the cold start/advance cover leaking be giving me these issues?? It doesn't seem to be allowing the pump to drain out, as I don't see any spots after sitting. and the fuel lines are still full.
Fuel filter? if this were plugging would it not show running issues as well?
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#1
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 17 Dec, 2011 11:14
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Sorry guys but it has to be done.
The car has become unreliable as to if it will start.. and its not even that cold out yet.
-10C this morning and I go out to start the car. Hit the glows for 15+ seconds let off and start cranking. nananananananana little bit of smoke rolling out from the pipe. Took 30 seconds of cranking and two glow sessions of 15 seconds to get it going, and even when it caught it only kind of rolled in to running. Like it was barely catching then a little bit more and so forth until it fully caught.
What could be causing my issues? I'm stumped. Battery is good, clearly after 30+ seconds of cranking and two 15+ second glows. Glow-plugs are brand new, they are fully manual and are individually fused. Each pulls 9-10 amps when cold. I have an electric full pump that i run when i am firing the plugs, so the pump is not losing prime. I also have clear fuel lines and they are both full of fuel going in to and leaving the pump.
Hmm come to think of it, I did notice a small diesel leak.. on the backside of the pump possibly.. Could the cold start/advance cover leaking be giving me these issues?? It doesn't seem to be allowing the pump to drain out, as I don't see any spots after sitting. and the fuel lines are still full.
Fuel filter? if this were plugging would it not show running issues as well?
you and i have some of the same issues..
and i believe that you and i are also running the OLD diesel thats only LSD, not ULSD.
how good are your plugs working?
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#2
by
wdkingery
on 17 Dec, 2011 13:15
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i said this in another thread just recently, but i'll throw in my two wooden nickels.
mine did the same thing.. especially that "roll to a start" part; almost to the point you didn't know whether to let off the starter or not lol.. is it runnin?
my solution was to finish out the F250 mod with an f250 style glow plug relay, and straight battery cables to the glow plugs. (yer GP wires are heatin up as they are too skinny. resistance.) i timed the orginal GP system, and the light stayed on for 4.8 seconds at it's longest. (course this was the dash light.. i never checked if the GP's actually stayed on the same amount.) so i used that as a base number to try and cook my plugs off of. i was only able to get to 3 GP's, as i had to make the cable ends (they don't make such large gauge crimpable wire ends that have small glowplug-sized holes in them. more like alt. B+ size holes, at the smallest) and i could not get to the closest one to the timing belt.
so when i get it to fire up, the 4th cylinder mirefires for about 20 seconds where it didn't really warmed up, as it still has a little nothing cable running to it; essentially it's not working.
but the completion of the F250 mod brought me to: at 28 degrees F, i can get it started in about 15-20 seconds. 5 seconds on the glowplugs, crank it.. if it doesn't start in 7 seconds of starter, 5 more seconds on the glowplugs, and it'll fire right up on the second wack of the starter, within a few cranks.
and to remind you how deep in the hole i am, my compression is 200/200/400/200 and i have a gasser starter cause i fried 2 of the 4 brushes in my diesel starter doing the same thing you described.. lots of GP warmin, then crankin crankin crankin and eventually i'm idling with the starter basically.. WAITIN ON HEAT.
with a block heater it fires like it's summer time out; third noise of the starter and i'm running, except the #4 misses for a few seconds.
i'd take pix but i'm in Holland for the holidays.. (it'll be 26 days of sitting for the what the dutch call a Yetta.. wonder how getting it fired up on Janurary 9th is gonna go!)
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#3
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 17 Dec, 2011 13:39
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no matter what glow plugs you have, 5 seconds burn time aint enough, even with duraterms..
late GPs burnt for 8 seconds.
early GPs burnt for 16..
your F250 mod is just masking other underlying issues..
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#4
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Dec, 2011 14:09
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I see nothing wrong with running two batteries? to be able to maintain above 1000 reliable cold cranking amps in any temperature? Yes Please. We just bought a new truck battery for my bro's turbo diesel, 850cca and 1050ca.. F YAH.
However, my plugs are good. 4g from battery to the solenoid, and solenoid to my fuse buss. From then on it is 12g to each plug, maybe a 20" run. Perfectly fine on the sizes for the current the plugs pull.
I am leaning towards it being fuel related.. KEv I ran a few tanks of Summer LSD back in early November.. but since have had the last few fill ups be winterized ULSD from a well used diesel pump in town.
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#5
by
DieselBalz
on 17 Dec, 2011 16:50
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Weather for Tampa, FL
66°F |Mostly Sunny
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#6
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Dec, 2011 17:10
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DieselBalz, You Suck
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I think I'd like to live in South Carolina.. juts a little further north so its not so hot in the winters... LMAO
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#7
by
burn_your_money
on 17 Dec, 2011 19:30
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What oil are you running? Synthetic?
What's your total voltage drop?
What's your timing set to?
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#8
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Dec, 2011 20:44
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Thank-you. I was kind of hoping it was the back advance cover leaking.. Nice and easy seal to replace
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Pop the pump off and voila new seal bobs your uncle. Pretty sure it is not the head seal leaking.. it feels wet near the back of the pump.. I guess i'll wipe it down and see whats what.
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#9
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Dec, 2011 22:48
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What oil are you running? Synthetic?
15w-40 dino 
.. but its not a slow crank that is the issue
What's your total voltage drop?
No idea i'll check tomorrow, however.. again i don't think its a starting system issue.
What's your timing set to?
Hmm.. I can't recall.. I was messing around with it every few days to get it right.. can't remember what I had it at.. I do know cranking with the cold start out makes it slower.. so I'd say im right on the ridge of too much advance
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#10
by
CRSMP5
on 17 Dec, 2011 23:01
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15-40 is kinda sludge in cold cold temp.. 10-30 much better for the starter..
is advaance pulled while cranking? or do you pull it once it starts to fire? i pull once it starts to fire as too advanced will sometimes cause issues on starting when cold.. easy test.. should try it..
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#11
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Dec, 2011 23:04
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15-40 is kinda sludge in cold cold temp.. 10-30 much better for the starter..
was gonna try a jug of 0w40 fully synthetic actually
is advaance pulled while cranking? or do you pull it once it starts to fire? i pull once it starts to fire as too advanced will sometimes cause issues on starting when cold.. easy test.. should try it..
No I pull it after it starts to fire, pulling it prior to slows the cranking.. I have it timed fairly high iirc. possibly .95 or higher.. I'll check tomorrow
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#12
by
BlueMule
on 17 Dec, 2011 23:30
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8v, at that temp my Little Mule, glowing once with the cold start pulled out and Syn 10/30 for winter, hit the starter, the engine turns over normally and fires right up. The only times I have ever had to glow twice etc. was when the compression was down before the first rebuild. I double dog dare you to check the compression cold, before cranking. I think you will find your compression is way down. If you don't have a compression adapter or gauge, you can possibly borrow one for free at an auto parts store. Also if you can get the gauge but no adapter, you can use a cut off old glow plug and have a fitting welded or brazed on, then instead of taking the compression from the injector bore you take it from the glow plug holes. Anyway thats what I have found with my vehicle.
Stay warm
BlueMule
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#13
by
theman53
on 18 Dec, 2011 06:05
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If you take the pump off it maybe a good idea to do the main seal while your there. That one is the hardest to see if there is an issue.
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#14
by
burn_your_money
on 18 Dec, 2011 06:35
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15-40 is kinda sludge in cold cold temp.. 10-30 much better for the starter..
was gonna try a jug of 0w40 fully synthetic actually
is advaance pulled while cranking? or do you pull it once it starts to fire? i pull once it starts to fire as too advanced will sometimes cause issues on starting when cold.. easy test.. should try it..
No I pull it after it starts to fire, pulling it prior to slows the cranking.. I have it timed fairly high iirc. possibly .95 or higher.. I'll check tomorrow
You'll like the 0w40. I always try to run a 0 or 5wxx synth in the winter. It makes a drastic difference.
Do you have a timing gauge so when you re and re the pump you can put it back in the same place?