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#30 by 8v-of-fury on 18 Aug, 2011 18:37
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What else changed when you did this turbo swap? Did you intercool it? change the fueling? change the tires? bearings? brake work? I mean 5.4 is a great avg, but its not really much different than 5.7. A few tanks in town could change your avg over the 40 thou. Plus over that many kilometers a ton of siht could have changed in your driving style, maybe you had an accident and it caused you to completely change driving habits? There is literally 3 billion factors that play in to every single persons mileage.. and no two cars can be compared figuratively.
It is weird though that you saw better mileage with the Merc T3 over the vw T2.. possibly because the T2 is inefficient? I don't know. -
#31 by theman53 on 18 Aug, 2011 19:56
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I have less boost with the IC installed and cooler air. I saw a 5mpg increase since the IC. I bet less boost pushes the boost pin down somewhat less too.
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#32 by 8v-of-fury on 18 Aug, 2011 21:16
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ahh yes, well cooled air can effectively be "less" air but the same efficiency and power gains as more boost.
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#33 by keaton on 18 Aug, 2011 21:18
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I have less boost with the IC installed and cooler air. I saw a 5mpg increase since the IC. I bet less boost pushes the boost pin down somewhat less too.
the air is also denser. where are you measuring boost at? usually the boost to the IP comes right off the turbo, pre IC -
#34 by theman53 on 19 Aug, 2011 04:57
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I don't think I have "less" air, but I think the air gets smaller after cooled. Then since it doesn't take up as much space you can pack more of it into the engine at less psi. My IC is pretty big and I used to be able to see a 27psi spike when I played around last winter, now 21psi is tops.
@ keaton I am giving the lda boost post IC. With all the egt issues I had it seemed to delay the inevitable. -
#35 by gldgti on 19 Aug, 2011 05:17
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What else changed when you did this turbo swap? Did you intercool it? change the fueling? change the tires? bearings? brake work? I mean 5.4 is a great avg, but its not really much different than 5.7. A few tanks in town could change your avg over the 40 thou. Plus over that many kilometers a ton of siht could have changed in your driving style, maybe you had an accident and it caused you to completely change driving habits? There is literally 3 billion factors that play in to every single persons mileage.. and no two cars can be compared figuratively.
It is weird though that you saw better mileage with the Merc T3 over the vw T2.. possibly because the T2 is inefficient? I don't know.
there could have been "3 billion things" that changed, but would I have bothered to post my relevant experience if there was? I'm not in the habit of providing bogus information for arguments sake, but I'll happily provide argument against generalised blanket statements about the efficiency of engines, especially when said generalisations are made without any scientific proof.
The car had same wheels, tyre size, intercooler, suspension height. For some periods with the T3 fitted I also had roofracks, which I didnt have before. I always had the same air filter setup, same exhaust (only thing that changes was the flange, even the DP was the same. Same intake manifold. Same weekly commute of ~1000km.
the difference between 5.7 and 5.4 is about 6% which I'd call a measurable and valid variance. I kept a fuel log in my glovebox and I always filled up at the same pump and at the same service station, and always with commercially available B100.
the fuelling was turned down slightly from where it was with the t2 but the car was making more power and more peak torque, but with peak torque at 2800rpm with the t3 and 2000 with the t2. The fact that my engine made more power and torque with less fuelling with the larger turbo says a lot about efficiency to me.
The fact is, that yes, there are a lot of things that effect fuel economy, and its not correct, in any way, to make a general statement that says a small turbo is always better for fuel economy than a big one, or that highway cruising with lots of boost doesnt effect mpg or engine life, or a lot of other things.
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#36 by R.O.R-2.0 on 19 Aug, 2011 09:01
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Not with a k03. Your not making high boost because your dumping a *** ton of fuel in to the motor, your making high boost because a k03 is literally the size of your one hand in a fist. It is not the fact that you are moving hot air, just air to begin with.
High boost is not bad on a small turbo, it is uber efficient. If it were bad how did my tdi make it to 430,000kms constantly cruising at full boost? And make 50+ mpg while doing so??
Yeah, you can't compare with a vnt, because you aint got no wastegate. Cruising on the highway, with the load of speed, the energy is there. turn it into boost and become more efficient, or dump it out the tailpipe.
My truck got much better mpgs with a small turbo and higher boost on the highway, than it did with a larger turbo and less boost. Nothing else changed on the motor, so, there is no way my motor became more efficient and got worse mpg. Put a t3 on a mk3 ahu/1z and tell me it is more efficient. ..
it's not
actually, I got better fuel economy out of my aaz mk3 with a t3 than I did with the stock t2 (which is same size as the k03). not the vw 1.6 spec t3 though, the merc spec t3 which has a much larger compressor.
I'm taking an average over ~40,000km (12 months driivng) of 5.7l/100km for the stock turbo and 5.4l/100km for the T3.
T2 and K14 are the same.. K03 is smaller than both. -
#37 by gldgti on 21 Aug, 2011 19:55
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T2 and K14 are the same.. K03 is smaller than both.
I have a t2 and a k14 on a bench at home, both from vw diesels... the k14 form an ecodiesel engine and the t2 from a mk3 aaz. the t2 is much smaller, and has the same compressor and turbine wheel diameters as the tdi spec k03.
there again, someone else posting general statements as fact that just arent true. -
#38 by rallydiesel on 21 Aug, 2011 20:39
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Yes there a lots of different versions of a given turbo "frame". For example, the ecodiesel k14 is smaller than the AAZ k14.
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#39 by R.O.R-2.0 on 22 Aug, 2011 13:24
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T2 and K14 are the same.. K03 is smaller than both.
I have a t2 and a k14 on a bench at home, both from vw diesels... the k14 form an ecodiesel engine and the t2 from a mk3 aaz. the t2 is much smaller, and has the same compressor and turbine wheel diameters as the tdi spec k03.
there again, someone else posting general statements as fact that just arent true.
the eco k14 is smaller than the standard k14. -
#40 by R.O.R-2.0 on 22 Aug, 2011 13:26
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T2 and K14 are the same.. K03 is smaller than both.
I have a t2 and a k14 on a bench at home, both from vw diesels... the k14 form an ecodiesel engine and the t2 from a mk3 aaz. the t2 is much smaller, and has the same compressor and turbine wheel diameters as the tdi spec k03.
there again, someone else posting general statements as fact that just arent true.
no, what i said is completely 100% true.. check your facts buddy.. -
#41 by gldgti on 22 Aug, 2011 16:21
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hahaha.... i guess my own eyes must be decieving me..... turbo's lined up on a shelf at home, I've had them all fitted to my engines before, and rebuilt 3 of them, and I can't spot that the t2 and the k14 are exactly the same? wow i must be stupid.
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#42 by R.O.R-2.0 on 22 Aug, 2011 16:26
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im not saying they are identical.. they are physically WAY different.. but the technical specs on them, almost identical.
if not, sue me.. thats just what the users of this forum have told me.. ive never even seen a T2 or a K14 (eco or normal) to compare them personally..
anyways.. this is way off topic, and has nothing to do with the original question.. -
#43 by GEE-BEE on 22 Aug, 2011 17:46
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I have a KO3/K04 hybrid
at 82 mph I see 7psi
temp 685
I can make you the intake from the mk1 airbox in either ko3 or t3 ( inlet to turbo )with a oblong for the airbox inlet
there on the shelf at Mk1Autohaus
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Rabbit-Mk1-Golf-Caddy-1-6-TD-Snorkel-Air-Intake-Hose-/220679730082
I have just finished all the scirocco 16 v hoses and all the 8v & 16 v mk1 hoses
There were 13 assys just for the MK1 GTI
vanagon diesel all done, starting the 2.1 Syncro vanagon
Gee-Bee
P.S. do the 5 different Ducati motorcycle hoses
silicone of course -
#44 by theman53 on 22 Aug, 2011 18:18
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You are the F ing man Gee Bee. I am glad to see you posting again, seems like it has been a while.
Is that K03/04 hybrid ball bearing and if so do you have a map at all or not? Does it suit your Giles pump? I see 700 or so at 80mph with my k24 if I am on flat ground cruising, but I will see 1600F if I am ripping on it up a hill. I would love to see a video of you driving and that turbo.