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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on May 20, 2015, 08:07:29 am
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just bought a set of these NEIKO 13PC TITANIUM LEFT HAND DRILL BIT SET #10038a
URL: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281309382684&alt=web to drill out the broken flat head screw in the brake rotor. does anyone know the length and thread size? I'd like to have it on hand before I start the job.
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Not for sure but I think it is an m6-1.0x10mm flat socket head. If it is not a 6 then it is a 5-.8 x10mm or so
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Checked my parts from Parts Place: Theman53 is correct, it's a 6mm x 1.0 thread flathead (it's a phillips head instead of hex). The length of mine seems to be 8mm from the start of the threads to the end of the threads.
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I played hell getting the Phillips headed ones out of my rotors when I did the front bearings. Replaced with hex heads and went stainless with some anti-seize on them.
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Thanks for the thread size. ORCoaster, did you use an impact screwdriver, the type that you hit with a hammer? In my experience that is the tool with the most chance of success.
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I called the VW dealer and got this part number N106 483 01 $0.75 ea. they did not have stock but says the Audi dealer down the road has 16. What is the torque specs on that screw? I imagine it shouldn't be very tight since it's just 1 teenie weenie screw for index
ing purposes. Too tight might actually stress it after you torque down the wheel lug nut bolts.
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You could save yourself some trouble next time and just not put the screw in...
Or just drill the head off so you have a stud to index the rotor with.
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You could save yourself some trouble next time and just not put the screw in...
Or just drill the head off so you have a stud to index the rotor with.
The screws has been broken off since I bought it 4 years ago. The rotor woukd shift when mounting the wheel and lug bolt won't thread in and I have to take the wheel off to line the holes up and try again. Very frustrating.t
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i find those screws break regularly, (or seize) its a little pain to line up holes w/rotor holes, an allen head or hex head would be good, not too tight, just snug. the only time it seems to be to be a big problem if late at night and you forgot a light, changing a tire could be difficult. the technique i like is to line up hole at about top and you can line up rim easier, once you get 1 started your ok. (use anti-seize)
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92EcoDiesel Jetta, I used brute wrist strength as I don't own one of those impact hammer type jobbies. I just soaked in penetrating fluid,did the heat and cool with torch and air cool. I did make sure I used my best bit of the bunch on the screws. I have my set of screwdrivers that are reserved from daily use for times like this where no slippage is acceptable.
My son has since given me one of those battery operated impact drivers and I find it useful in situations like this but now I need a set of points that can take the impact jarring without breaking the bits, to bits. Anyone have a recommendation on those?
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Went to the Audi dealer asked for p/n N106 483 01 and got these $1.25 ea. Stainless torx
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/20150522_144716_zpsfldvlqmo.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/20150522_144716_zpsfldvlqmo.jpg.html)
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Cheap Rotor Bling, You will no longer kick yourself when you go to do work in the future. Good choice.
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Impact screwdriver rarely fails me. Anytime that screw goes back in its treated with anti seize.
In the auto parts store, go to the "help" section. They have a pack of rotor screws for a Honda that's a perfect fit.
-Todd
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I favor the 1.25 stainless hex. Sporty and extremely practical. Everyone has a set of hex wrenches or tips that go on a ratchet for that extra leverage when needed. And as noted, anti-seize every time it comes off.
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I favor the 1.25 stainless hex. Sporty and extremely practical. Everyone has a set of hex wrenches or tips that go on a ratchet for that extra leverage when needed. And as noted, anti-seize every time it comes off.
The ones I bought from I favor the 1.25 stainless hex. Sporty and extremely practical. Everyone has a set of hex wrenches or tips that go on a ratchet for that extra leverage when needed. And as noted, anti-seize every time it comes off.
The ones from Audi are Torx, as the pics clearly shows. You like hex better? Torx is better than hex, less likely to strip imo.
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Impact screwdriver rarely fails me. Anytime that screw goes back in its treated with anti seize.
In the auto parts store, go to the "help" section. They have a pack of rotor screws for a Honda that's a perfect fit.
-Todd
Good to know. Are the autoparts store ones for Honda Phillips head? Are they stainless.
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Didn't catch the Torx versus Hex in your picture post. I would go for Torx over hex as well. They are better. Philips not even on the list for consideration. Thanks for the clarification.
With all the other hex head bolts on the VW you have to wonder how did they sneak those on their rotors in the first place?
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I think they developed torx to be less tampered with. FWIW I have stripped many more torx fasteners to a tune of at least 10 to 1 over a socket head. I have stripped more hex keys than socket heads and stripped more torx bits than hex keys. Even a button head socket has more to hold than a torx. YRMV...
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I think they developed torx to be less tampered with. FWIW I have stripped many more torx fasteners to a tune of at least 10 to 1 over a socket head. I have stripped more hex keys than socket heads and stripped more torx bits than hex keys. Even a button head socket has more to hold than a torx. YRMV...
I'd have to disagree with the tampering part. Very odd you stripped more torx than allen and socket head.
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I was about to take the calipers and rotors off when I discovered a crack on one of the rotors. This crack is between 2 lug bolt. Is this common and what's the cause? I think it is due to a combination of rust between the rotor and hub (uneven surfaces) and me over torque-ing the lug bolts. I am now waiting for 2 new rotors before starting this job. I'll make sure to clean, sand and paint the hub before putting the new rotors on.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/20150522_103705_zpsjicwu4ie.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/20150522_103705_zpsjicwu4ie.jpg.html)
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Scary. Over torquing usually just warps rotors from my understanding, although if it's not against a flat surface than anything is game.
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it is very possible the uneven surface is presented by the slightly protruding broken screw stud if the rotor screw hole is not lined up during wheel install. I'll take a closer look at the rotor for marks left by the broken screw.
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theman53, IF you are stripping out a torx head more than a hex you are doing something out of the ordinary. Perhaps your bits are worn? They are designed to bite better than a hex so you shouldn't be stripping them out at all. I would be looking at your technique and your tools.
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theman53, IF you are stripping out a torx head more than a hex you are doing something out of the ordinary. Perhaps your bits are worn? They are designed to bite better than a hex so you shouldn't be stripping them out at all. I would be looking at your technique and your tools.
Nope.
Try to find *yes there are some* but seriously try to find a torx drive fastener over 10mm-1.5 thread in a 12.9 grade. They almost don't exist. Why wouldn't they want the best engagement in the bigger sizes? Maybe they are using the best engagement. I sell bolts to OEM mfg and pretty much the only reason they will use torx is in a spot where they don't want someone to take it apart with tools found under the kitchen sink. They don't have as much meat by design as they are not supposed to need it, but in the real world the design seems to disagree...again YRMV
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Critical fasteners such as CV axles, cyl head bolts etc are all Torx. Tamper proof fasteners are usually found in public rest rooms, not on cars.
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None of the VW CV bolts are Torx. They are all either allen or triple-square.
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92EcoDiesel, I had to laugh as I thought Hmmm, lets try those counterclockwise regular screwdriver type security nuts on that rotor. Bet theman would be sooooo pissed about that.
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i like those screws, and shinny too; that pic of your rotor looks like sh*t, ive never had a rotor look that bad, its been sitting around for a while or something else is wrong for it to look like that, brake area should be bare metal, some rust will get wiped away when you brake, too much and you will ,i guess, get bad wear patterns, or chew up pads.
phillips screws are about 25 ft lbs break, max, that is if screw head doesnt strip before, which it usually does, or gets rusted in, an allen head is a big step up, torx is another step up and should hold up to mid torque. you shouldnt have many striping problems with torx, unless you have another problem, rust, overtightening, cross-thread when you put it in, ?possibly a chewed up tool?. my cv bolts are like 8-point, maybe more point, have a snap-on tool for that. i do believe cv bolts are hardened too.
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I use an impact screwdriver (I impact a screwdriver with a hammer) to remove them.
Put the screwdriver in the screw and hit it with a hammer,.. to loosen it up.
Works great.
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Good to know. Are the autoparts store ones for Honda Phillips head? Are they stainless.
Philips head and not stainless. If you anti seize them, they should never be an issue.
The only time I use the impact screwdriver is to break them free if I pick up another car. These screws don't need to be super tight.... hand tight is fine. The screws are only there to hold the rotor.
-Todd
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i like those screws, and shinny too; that pic of your rotor looks like sh*t, ive never had a rotor look that bad, its been sitting around for a while or something else is wrong for it to look like that, brake area should be bare metal, some rust will get wiped away when you brake, too much and you will ,i guess, get bad wear patterns, or chew up pads.......................
The close up pic of the crack can be misleading if you did not catch post #19 above where I said: "This crack is between 2 lug bolt. "
My new rotors are here and will try do the job today. This crack was very hard to see. I could have easily missed it. First time I noticed it, it appeared to be a faint outline of a crack under a lot of rust. I wire brushed and scraped the rust away and ran a razor blade through it before it looked like a definite crack. The crack appears to have been there for a long time and not getting any larger. I actually kept driving the car since its discovery.
Pic of crack zoomed out
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/20150526_150648_zpsysqixfcx.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/20150526_150648_zpsysqixfcx.jpg.html)
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was commenting on all that rusty-gunk you had built up on brake surface of rotor, the crack in the 1st pic looked like it ran up on the rotor; this pic you can take a shot at fixing that crack; although you said you had new rotors coming, id 'slap' new set on. (new pads of course, id also change out fluid, and prob svc rear brakes), i liked semi-metallic pads, some people have a problem with dust, used to get them from repco(?sp?). if on the rotor you for some odd reason want to fix, or use as practice, the only thing you need to find is both ends of your crack, after drilling welding is an added +, id spot 2 or 3 welds of about an inch. hard enough to get away with an entire length of metal welded, any size, the industry uses a lot of complete welding; thats a lot of heat going in there. and the one job i had guys would turn their mig welders all the way up having good voltage for wire speeds at 10, hothothot.
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The keft hand drills didn't do it's job. It was my first time trying them to extract broken screws. With penetrating oil and 3 successsive increasing size drills, the screws did not back out. I should have known better there is not much chance for a screw that's been rusted in place for at least 5 years that heat is the only hope. I had to drill out the screw almost completely then ran a tap through it to cut new threads. I was very careful to drill on center and both sides came out good.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/20150530_170013_zpsjrwdya6w.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/20150530_170013_zpsjrwdya6w.jpg.html)
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New Zimmerman rotors made in Germany from FCPEuro, new anti rattle spring clips from Raybestos, new pads (free lifetime replacements) from Autozone.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/20150530_133344_zpsqsrq7qoz.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/20150530_133344_zpsqsrq7qoz.jpg.html)
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Always hate all the rust that comes off the rotors so I painted these inside out. Let's see how well it keeps the rust away.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/20150530_172637_zpsc8bczmx6.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/20150530_172637_zpsc8bczmx6.jpg.html)
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was commenting on all that rusty-gunk you had built up on brake surface of rotor, ...........
AGAIN, THE RUST IS NOT ON THE BRAKE SURFACE OF ROTOR!!!
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None of the VW CV bolts are Torx. They are all either allen or triple-square.
You are right! For CV and head bolts, VW has changed to the better triple square aka XZN fasteners, which have similar tooth design as Torx but with 2x the number of points (12 vs 6) for less chance of cam out (stripping).
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The new rotors and pads are doing great! They feel a little smoother when stopping. This is the first time ever for me replacing rotors with new, and I've had many cars with high mileage.
I took a closer look at the cracked rotor. The crack did not carry over to the other side so it is a surface crack only. I think the cause of the crack must be not having the broken rotor screw stud (which protruded slightly) lined up with the rotor screw hole during wheel install. I was always careful to line them up but can't say for sure if others who worked on the car before me did the same. The other rotor with a broken screw was flush and do not have cracks.