Samurai with a 1.6l tuning issues (hey Giles!)

[bvanetten]

Yeah.  It all seems to be pointing to the turbo.  Turn up the fuel more!?!  Giles said this pump I am running is setup to fuel 120hp.

[DVST8R]

As it is now, or at its max setting?

For 120hp as I stated earlier will be like 24psi with a light haze.

[bvanetten]

As it is now I'm assuming.  He set it up for me to bolt on, time it, and go.  

Now, if my turbo isn't right and more importantly the WG is stuck open I'll never see anywhere near what the pump is setup for right?  The pump won't ramp up the fueling because it never gets a boost signal.  

I'm thinking right with this no?

[jtanguay]

As it is now I'm assuming.  He set it up for me to bolt on, time it, and go.  

Now, if my turbo isn't right and more importantly the WG is stuck open I'll never see anywhere near what the pump is setup for right?  The pump won't ramp up the fueling because it never gets a boost signal.  

I'm thinking right with this no?

if you see a lot of smoke coming out the back, then that is wasted fuel.  if you don't, then no real need to worry.  Do you have an egt gauge?

[DVST8R]

As it is now I'm assuming.  He set it up for me to bolt on, time it, and go.  

Now, if my turbo isn't right and more importantly the WG is stuck open I'll never see anywhere near what the pump is setup for right?  The pump won't ramp up the fueling because it never gets a boost signal.  

I'm thinking right with this no?

You could be quite right there, I always think of a turned up stock pump, with a modified fuel pin, not a Giles pin and pump. There is a good posibilty that it won't see full fuel until you have enough boost. Mabey Giles can chime in here about this specific pump and situation.  :wink:

[Dr. Diesel]

do the easy thing first, and eliminate the possibility of the safety valve leaking. Block off it's hose!

[bvanetten]

Ok, work delayed me a bit but I finally got more data.  I took the turbo to Turbo Auto Diesel here in Phoenix and had them look it over.  They say there is nothing wrong with it and the wastegate is working properly (WG valve seat is good to).  So I put it back on.  I built a plate to block the hole left after I removed the BOV valve.  I disconnected the intercooler due to the amount of leaks I found in it and the charge air tubing I made so my #'s are a bit different than before but still not right.

Here is before...
In third gear cruise
2500 rpm, 40mph, 700 degrees, maybe 1lb boost
3000 rpm, 48mph, 800 degrees, 3 lbs boost
3500 rpm, 56mph, 1050 degrees, 6 lbs boost

Here is now...
In third gear cruise
2500 rpm, 40mph, 1000 degrees, 2lbs boost
3000 rpm, 48mph, 1150 degrees, 5 lbs boost
3500 rpm, no friggin way.

In 2nd gear when I floor it I don't see 10lbs boost until 3500 rpm and then it ramps up quickly seeing a max of 24lbs boost at 4500rpm.

In 3rd gear when I floor it I donlt see 10 lbs boost until 3000 rpm and then it ramps up to a max of 20 lbs at 4000 rpm.

The lack of an intercooler, even a leaky one is noticable.  My tire size and diff gearing are an issue also.  34x10.50 swampers are a true 34 inch tire, match that with 4.10 gears and 1st gear is a little boggy to start.  I'll probably change to 4.88's when I put in lockers.  So here are a few questions.

1. Is 24lbs max boost reasonable from a Giles pump setup for 120hp and a stock T3?
2. Floored, when should I see max boost with this setup?  And when should boost start to ramp up.
3. What is the resonable sustained use upper end for boost with this T3?

I have access to a buddy that can make a custom intake and exhaust manifold for a twin setup.  Is this the route to go?  As fun as that might be I would like to avoid the down time and cost associated with it for now.

All I am looking for is the ability to cruise the freeway at 70 mph.  The rest is gravy.

[DVST8R]

1. No, I have a Stock pump with a cut fuel pin, and the max speed screw adjusted right out for a few extra rpm and I can hit 30psi...

2. Depends on load. In third gear I see max boost by ~3000 rpm

3. ~28 - 30psi, supposedly after 24psi you are just pushing hot air, but I know that I still made more power, as well as a few others around here.

Unplug the wastegate, make sure the LDA is still hooked up with no leaks, see what kinda boost you make & when. Quick test that will tell us lots.

[deepmud]

yean, disco the line to the wastegate - just looking at your high EGT and low boost, something is up - the Giles pump is sending fuel, you need more air. 12 psi should be pretty zoomy. 70 mph should be easy to do.

VNT turbos might be a better option than duals. Even a VNT 15 should easily flow 120 hp with a 1.6td and be better at getting low rpm boost, too.

[bvanetten]

All of the tests done today are with the wastegate unplugged (disabled, it is getting no boost) and the ports that feed the wastegate plugged.  As far as the LDA is concerned I have ran a section of the small diesel fuel line (the braided stuff) that runs from the port on the intake horn to the LDA.  I have a tee in the middle of this line that feeds the boost gage.  FWIW, I have pressurized the system from the airhorn to the tail pipe and I have no leaks.

Mud, I agree with you, I'm not getting enough air.  After taking the turbo to one of the best turbo rebuilders in the country and having them tell me it is in great shape I am at a loss as to what the problem is.


DVST8R, even with varying loads and gears I don't see max boost until at least 4000 rpm.  Where you are seeing max boost I am barely at 10 psi and jsut starting to ramp up.

I wonder if the AFC spring is to tight.  That would cause my boost related fueling to come on late, no?  I don't want to start messing with pump settings until I have exhausted all other possibilities because the pump is a known quantity currently.

[deepmud]

I think your turbo is bad, regardless of what they say. You have enought fuel to make heat, your EGT is high, you don't need more fuel, you need more air.

For grins, you could run a little with no downpipe, to check for restricted exhaust. It could just be possible. I always ran straight pipe.

After that see if someone will loan you a 1.9td turbo - they're teeny and boost a lot and fast - or try for a vnt 15 on ebay but sometimes the 1.9td turbos are a give-away-free. Without a controller my 1.9td would go to 20 psi almost instantly, before I could back off the fuel.

[bvanetten]

I'm running 2 1/2" exhaust from the turbo back.  I installed a muffler but it is a streight through type, you can see through it.  I'll try running without the downpipe tomorrow.  Maybe I have a packrat nest in there somewhere!

A buddy of mine just bought a converted zuk.  His is stock and running a kkk.  I have to pull his exhaust manifold to tap it for an egt probe so I might steal the kkk for an afternoon.  I'll report back when done.

[bvanetten]

I have not looked into valve lash yet.  It's a mechanical head so the shop that rebuilt the block and head should have been able to set the valves correctly with the head off right?  I asked them before I put it all together if I needed to adjust the valves and they said I shouldn't have to, they set them to spec.

[deepmud]

Can't hurt to be double sure - I got a 7.3 to run with the pump 180 out of time once - it was kind of slow, and ran hot too

[DVST8R]

I think you are running retarded. Your timing that is. It would cause all of the symptoms you described. Now this could happen when you set the tension on the timing belt, becuase the flywheel moves when you tighten it up. Double check your initail timing on the pump, as well as your timing in regards to the camshaft and crank. I have a feeling it is the later one.