Rover pump on 1.6TD?

[TimpanogosSlim]

Getting ready for my 1.6D to 1.6TD project, a range rover enthusiast I know seems to have found me a rebuildable 300td pump for not a huge amount of money. The kind that would have originally had a throttle position sensor for EGR, though the guy with the pump says that the sensor itself is long gone.

I've searched and not found much information - would it be at all reasonable to use a rover pump on a 1.6TD? Perhaps some parts from a VW pump would need to be swapped in during the rebuild?

I've done some amateur watchmaking so delicate work with gears that have to be just so isn't entirely daunting to me.

Is there somewhere i can acquire new seals? He also says he stopped using the pump because he had another and this one seems to have an issue with the fuel cutoff solenoid. Doesn't sound too hard to deal with.

[vanbcguy]

Seals are definitely available - there is a common Bosch kit that contains everything you will need.

The cam plate in the Rover pump won't really be all that good for an IDI engine - it'll make for a very noisy engine that doesn't do all that well as the ramp on the cam plate is too severe for the lower pressure IDI injectors.

If your goal is to get a good running 1.6TD you'd actually be better off trading the Rover pump with someone who is looking to build an mTDI - I'm sure there's lots of folks on here who have an extra 1.6TD pump or two that would be glad to have the Rover pump (myself included!)

[TimpanogosSlim]

Seals are definitely available - there is a common Bosch kit that contains everything you will need.

The cam plate in the Rover pump won't really be all that good for an IDI engine - it'll make for a very noisy engine that doesn't do all that well as the ramp on the cam plate is too severe for the lower pressure IDI injectors.

If your goal is to get a good running 1.6TD you'd actually be better off trading the Rover pump with someone who is looking to build an mTDI - I'm sure there's lots of folks on here who have an extra 1.6TD pump or two that would be glad to have the Rover pump (myself included!)

So it would not be a simple conversion, even if i changed the cracking pressure of the injectors?

Acquiring it to trade sounds like a good idea perhaps. I can get it much cheaper than i see pumps sell for. The one i can get is said to have an issue with the fuel cutoff solenoid sticking, but that doesn't sound like something that would be hard to fix.

[8v-of-fury!]

The cam plate in the Rover pump won't really be all that good for an IDI engine - it'll make for a very noisy engine that doesn't do all that well as the ramp on the cam plate is too severe for the lower pressure IDI injectors.

False. The camplate I pulled out of my 300TDI rover pump had less lift and duration than a 1.6TD camplate..

[theman53]

I bought a rover pump for the 1.6 that I am going to play with the advance piston on. From what some pump builders have told me it is well suited for a very built 1.6 engine that is fuel hungry.

[libbydiesel]

The cam plate in the Rover pump won't really be all that good for an IDI engine - it'll make for a very noisy engine that doesn't do all that well as the ramp on the cam plate is too severe for the lower pressure IDI injectors.

False. The camplate I pulled out of my 300TDI rover pump had less lift and duration than a 1.6TD camplate..

The camplate that came in my Rover pump had a lift almost 1mm *higher* than the stock 1.6 camplate. 

[TimpanogosSlim]

I bought a rover pump for the 1.6 that I am going to play with the advance piston on. From what some pump builders have told me it is well suited for a very built 1.6 engine that is fuel hungry.

That's encouraging to hear. At the moment it is looking like i will be getting an AAZ head to match the PD150 intake manifold and to-be-determined turbo (which will probably come off of a 1.9 TDI, the question is VNT or no?)

[8v-of-fury!]

The cam plate in the Rover pump won't really be all that good for an IDI engine - it'll make for a very noisy engine that doesn't do all that well as the ramp on the cam plate is too severe for the lower pressure IDI injectors.

False. The camplate I pulled out of my 300TDI rover pump had less lift and duration than a 1.6TD camplate..

The camplate that came in my Rover pump had a lift almost 1mm *higher* than the stock 1.6 camplate. 

So it was close to the AAZ camplate of ~3.20mm of lift? I have measured my rover one at ~2.20mm the same as many 1.6 NA and TD, the 8mm ECO pumps, and the altitude comp pumps.

[libbydiesel]

It is near 3mm of lift.

[8v-of-fury!]

This is an AAZ (left) compared to my Rover (right). Almost exactly 1mm higher lift, and much more intense ramp.

[libbydiesel]

Thanks for the pic.  Yup, if you placed my rover camplate to the left of a 1.6 camplate it would look darn close to that.

To the OP I'd add a couple points.  The rover pump has an 11mm plunger as opposed to the 9mm plunger in the stock 1.6TD injection pump which because of r^2*pi, means 33% more fuel.  The rise in pressure with that increase in plunger size will make for a very clattery 1.6.  Also, the advance curve is wrong.  It is nice that the rover has potential for more overall advance, but the spring rate and pre-tension is wrong.  

The rover pump could be made to work with a 1.6TD but unless pushing a MASSIVE amount of boost, a 1.6TD injection pump is a better starting point.  As mentioned, that rover pump is desirable for an mTDI pump and I'm sure could be traded for a 1.6TD pump easily enough.  

[TimpanogosSlim]

Well, i bought it, because it was a heck of a deal.

And because trading it for a known-good pump more appropriate for a 1.6td appeals to me.

I may let the guy i am getting it from know that if he were to import half a dozen of them he could probably make a killing here.

. :Sent by pneumatic tubes

[TimpanogosSlim]

Silly question - would it be possible to dial back the output of the rover pump? Governor mod, but the other way?

[vanbcguy]

Dial back how? The cam plate ramp shape can't be changed without installing a different cam plate, so that part of it is reasonably unchangeable without doing major pump surgery. But you definitely can turn the max fuel screw down and reduce the HP of the engine super easily if that's what you are asking.

Modifications to the governor will control the usable RPM range of the pump.

[TimpanogosSlim]

Dial back how? The cam plate ramp shape can't be changed without installing a different cam plate, so that part of it is reasonably unchangeable without doing major pump surgery. But you definitely can turn the max fuel screw down and reduce the HP of the engine super easily if that's what you are asking.

Modifications to the governor will control the usable RPM range of the pump.

ok, so, lets make sure i learned something useful.

I know that the size of the plunger ultimately determines how much fuel is pushed per pulse.

Relative to the cam plate, which determines the waveform of the output including the length of the plunger's throw.

You're saying that the governor's action is nonlinear and mostly (entirely?) active in the upper RPM range. Right?

At this point I'm sure i don't understand the scope of control given by the max fuel screw - are you saying that reducing max fuel would reduce the output at high RPM but it would still dump fuel like crazy at low RPM?