Author Topic: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)  (Read 8093 times)

April 04, 2013, 09:46:52 pm

akrallysport

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1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« on: April 04, 2013, 09:46:52 pm »
After a couple of years away from VWs I found myself a decent mk1 1.6D for a commuter, but do have a goal to make it a double-duty and do some auto-x with it. The first order of business is fix a coolant leak from the housing gasket, but also noticed the need for a new engine mount on the passenger side... what the heck was VW thinking integrating the the pump mount into the engine mount? Or am I missing something?

In the meantime, I've been considering some performance upgrades as the age of the Rabbit alone puts me in a fairly quick auto-x class. Luckily, I kept a significant amount parts from my old AAZ, including:
- pistons & rods
- complete cyl head
- intake & exhaust manifolds
- rebuilt K03 w/360deg thrust bearing
- complete injection pump
- clutch and 020 trans
etc.

Should I even bother converting to a TD (probably with just the manifolds and pump), or just go with a NA and a Giles pump? Or turbo it with a Giles pump?

Reply #1April 04, 2013, 11:37:37 pm

Blocksmith

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 11:37:37 pm »
I'd say that depends on what your goals are, and what the rules of your autocross competition allow  ;). Of course a turbocharged, Giles-pumped engine is going to be the most beastly powerful thing that one could make, but if it mandates that you compete against a more or less unbeatable class of lightweight turbocharged gassers, well....
That being said, honestly I'd say the most important thing that can be modified in the MK1 chassis is suspension; again, provided that such modifications do not bump you up into a class that you won't be competitive in. My brother just recently entered his 1.6 TD-converted Cabriolet (also with a k03, incidentally) in a local autocross meet, and the body roll on the stock suspension was unreal... He posted pretty decent times for his first attempt at the whole endeavor, but only because he had the rear inside tire off the ground on every single corner...

As far as the AAZ parts are concerned, the 1.9 pistons/rods absolutely will not fit in a 1.6 block--you'd need the whole 1.9 short block, in which case you'd sure as heck be better off running the entire AAZ motor--the only reason to make the AAZ head fit a hydraulic 1.6 block is because of the bigger intake valves on the AAZ--running a 1.6 head on an AAZ block is somewhere north of a 1:25 compression ratio, which is definitely venturing into the land of too much compression, especially if power is a concern. Furthermore, the AAZ injection pump has issues when compared to a 1.6 turbo pump--namely that the AAZ fuel enrichment pin in the LDA is a joke compared to the 1.6TD version. That's not to say that you wouldn't be getting more power out of a stock AAZ pump compared to a 1.6 non-turbo pump, but just that it's hardly ideal.

And as far as the coolant leak goes, I'm not aware of the water pump being connected in any way to the engine mounts on any mk1... but then maybe you're talking about something other than a rabbit (golf 1) or jetta?
Green 83 Rabbit 4dr, 5 speed ACH trans swap, ported 1.6D mech lifter w/ vnt15, na pump w/ gov mod, gasser intake mani, 2.5" exhaust, bilstein sports and cut mk2 springs, ss brake lines, 14" vw bottlecaps

Reply #2April 05, 2013, 09:35:47 am

akrallysport

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 09:35:47 am »
I wasn't clear... engine mount + INJECTION pump, sorry. I am still shaking my head at the design, however this is coming from a person who changed engine mounts in a Subaru, which more or less requires  an engine hoist and drilling holes in the subframe to access the hardware OR, as I did, do it while the clutch is being changed... as for the water pump, I am currently converting the hardware using studs from an AAZ in order to facilitate alternator bracket adjusments/upgrades and not disturb the water pump housing.

Suspension is a given and will be my focus as it is my field of interest... I will be attempting to replicate the geometry in some simulation software to see what changes I should make to really get it moving around the cones. Koni yellows with a Ground Control perches and the appropriate spring rates are my first choice for adjustability vs cost.

Back to the power. I am in more or less a class where anything goes. To start, I'm looking to the 1.6D block, pistons, head, etc., bolt on the intake and exhaust from my 1.9TD... the pump is where I'm still uncertain with respect to the 1.6D being able to supply enough fuel.

As for the boost pin on the 1.9, that is not a problem - I can machine anything I want at the my University machine shop.


Reply #3April 05, 2013, 02:22:11 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 02:22:11 pm »
The only difference internally of the 1.6 and 1.9 pumps is the cam disk. It has a steeper higher lift ramp on each lobe. It can inject more fuel quicker and sooner.. and at a higher break pressure if so desired.

Reply #4April 05, 2013, 06:59:09 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 06:59:09 pm »
The only difference internally of the 1.6 and 1.9 pumps is the cam disk. It has a steeper higher lift ramp on each lobe. It can inject more fuel quicker and sooner.. and at a higher break pressure if so desired.
ECO pumps notwithstanding... 8mm piston and higher camplate.

Reply #5April 05, 2013, 08:08:07 pm

CrazyAndy

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 08:08:07 pm »
Did you keep the AAZ injectors?  You can put an entire AAZ fuel system on a 1.6, but swapping an AAZ pump on a motor with 1.6 injectors can get a little funky due to the different height of each engine's injectors.  That means having to futz with different sets of injector lines to get it all to line up.  Just putting that out there if you haven't considered that yet.

As far as making an NA into a TD, know this;  TDs had oil jets in their blocks to cool their cylinders, while NAs don't.  This means being careful with what amount of boost you can safely run without melting your piston from excess heat.  Nothing over 12 psi sustained is what I would recommend when DDing.  An EGT gauge is a MUST with this setup since it allows you to keep tabs on exhaust temperature so you don't grenade your engine from heat.  A multi-layer steel (MLS) head gasket and head studs are essential as well to keep the head on, especially if it's an 11mm block!  Remember, if you plan on running this as a DD also, err on the conservative side, then take small steps up with boost and fueling increases.  NEVER RUN YOUR CAR UNTESTED AFTER TUNING BOOST/FUEL.

As far as the suspension goes, I like what I'm hearing on the spring/strut/strut housing selection, but I would also recommend installing as many chassis braces as your class can allow.  Of particular importance for a MK1 is the installation of a lower control arm stress bar, or 'K-bar'.  This solves the common issue of chassis flex at the end of the lower control arm frame horns, which causes unwanted camber tuck under harsh turns which could cause some under-steer on the stock US rabbit suspension setup (especially with those soft roll-prone springs!).  Get tighter steering rack bushings on while you're down there.  As far as sway bars, it's a bit of a toss-up; some just like to run a stock rear bar from the Cabriolet (helps induce some over-steer to counter any nose-heaviness), some go full-on and put big bars front and rear.  That's not an are I'm fully sure of, so it's your call.

RESIST THE URGE TO PUT POLY MOTOR MOUNT BUSHINGS IN!  They will rattle your teeth out, as well as every screw and bolt in the car. :)  The most I'd suggest is stock HD mounts, and only in heavy areas like the passenger mount and driver side trans mount, maybe the rear trans mount as well (that one you can feel through the floor).

Upgrade to MK1 GTI 9.4" front vented rotors and corresponding pads (Hawk HPS are good street pads; low dust with good bite); you can still use the stock caliper.  If you want to go to 14" wheels you can consider even upgrading to 10.1" rotors, but those lock up faster and affect your pedal feel.  As for the rear, you'd be surprised what a set of good drums do.  Consider a set of 200mm Caddy/Mk3 Jetta rear drums; you don't need to drop extra coin for a new master cylinder and parking brake cables.  If you must roll all-disc, just go full 16v Scirocco.  However, you will have to source EVERYTHING; Pads, rotors, rear axle stubs, parking brake cables, master cylinder and brake booster . . . . everything except the body brake lines basically.   That is IF you can even still find a 16v to pull parts from; good luck with that.  And don't forget to flush your old fluid.  Last thing I swear; braided brake hoses give some killer bite to the stop pedal, so food for thought.
Bottom line IMO: MK1 GTI fronts w/ aftermarket pads, Caddy rears, good fluid, adjusted brakes, new brake hoses, maybe some braided ones if you feelin' fancy, huh.  8)  You'd be surprised at how well these light (1800-1950 lbs!) cars stop with a good-working system of well-thought mix of OEM+ components.  Never forget, VW can be German for LEGO.

So yeah, that's kind of all I gotta say right now.  Sorry for the wall of text, but I've been doing research also and thought I'd save some searching for you.  lemme know If I didn't completely address something or if what I wrote leaves you with questions.  Have fun reading!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 08:09:57 pm by CrazyAndy »


Reply #6April 06, 2013, 01:30:03 pm

akrallysport

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 01:30:03 pm »
Thanks for the info Andy...

1 - AAZ injectors, check. I kept the entire fuel system and cylinder head from the AAZ, I can do the entire fuel system conversion without problems. The only downside is that IIRC, one of the lower seals on the inj. pump was leaking when I pulled it out of service, therefore some work is necessary.

2 - Fully aware of differences of the block & oil system after reading Waldon's guide - EGT gauge is on order and currently comparing oil coolers. Currently calling in some favours for fittings so that I can customize it (w/fan

3 - Chassis & suspension are my specialty for my Formula SAE team at Univ... as a result I will be taking my time figuring it out. However, the car did come with a front strut bar, so that's a bonus. Front lower bar and triangulated rear strut bars are currently being sketched, with the rear bar being removable becoming a priority. First order of business will be poly steering rack bushings and suspension bushings (my Civic-owning classmate hated me the moment I told him that only 8 bushings are required for the Rabbit).

4 - Trust me... no poly engine mounts are ever going into any diesel that I own. I know how critical vibration isolation is for part longevity. The cracked alternator bracket from my AAZ is the perfect example. ;)

5 - 14s are already on the car, as the PO was running Snowflakes. I have a significant amount of brake parts stockpiled, including a complete 4-disc setup from a mk2, including knuckles and spindles. Master cylinder and booster is still up in the air, but braided brake lines will be the finishing touch.

6 - No worries about walls of text... I'm used to walls of calculations.  :P


Progress so far? Little as it is exam season... the water pump and housing are ready to go but concerns did pop up when I was removing the upper fasteners. My new studs are very difficult to thread back in, so mild tap work is necessary to clear out the threads. Since the passenger engine mount is in dire need of replacement, a new timing belt is going in and the inj. pump coming out, so I'll wait until I get around to that before I attempt any thread repairs. Long story short, although I was trying to avoid it looks like the engine is coming out to make life easier.

Reply #7April 06, 2013, 01:45:50 pm

akrallysport

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 01:45:50 pm »
The only difference internally of the 1.6 and 1.9 pumps is the cam disk. It has a steeper higher lift ramp on each lobe. It can inject more fuel quicker and sooner.. and at a higher break pressure if so desired.

Which one has the higher lift? 1.6 or 1.9? Not sure which one you were referring to...

Reply #8April 07, 2013, 04:03:49 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 04:03:49 pm »
ECO pumps notwithstanding... 8mm piston and higher camplate.

Do you have a measurement of the lift on one of the ECO plates? I have measured most all 1.6's at 2.20mm of lift, and the AAZ at 3.13mm of cam lobe lift.

The only difference internally of the 1.6 and 1.9 pumps is the cam disk. It has a steeper higher lift ramp on each lobe. It can inject more fuel quicker and sooner.. and at a higher break pressure if so desired.

Which one has the higher lift? 1.6 or 1.9? Not sure which one you were referring to...

My apologies, the 1.9 pump has the higher lift cam disk. Ultimately, if you swap the end delivery valves from the 1.6 pump on to the 1.9 pump you will then be able to mount it to the 1.6 mount and use 1.6 injection lines to mate up to the 1.6 injectors. If you then swap in a 1.6 TD boost pin you should be good to go.

However I have heard rumour of some 1.9 AAZ pumps that do not have a fully functioning pin that rides the boost pin, so adding a 1.6 boost pin may actually do nothing. I have not personally had one of these pumps in my hands.. but I have heard they are out there.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 08:50:04 pm by 8v-of-fury »

Reply #9April 07, 2013, 08:41:32 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 08:41:32 pm »
Do you have a measurement of the lift on one of the ECO plates? I have measured most all 1.6's at 2.26mm of lift, and the AAZ at 3.13mm of cam lobe lift.

2.55mm


(More info here: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=33196.msg309999#msg309999)

Reply #10May 11, 2013, 08:34:18 pm

akrallysport

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2013, 08:34:18 pm »
Exams are over and I'm starting to find some time here and there to work on the Wabbit, although work is now getting in the way. However, as my Subie has thrown a few tantrums lately I'll be trying to get it running and moving ASAP.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 08:37:39 pm by akrallysport »

Reply #11June 09, 2013, 08:09:54 pm

akrallysport

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2013, 08:09:54 pm »
Been busy at work, but progress at last!!! New intake/exhaust gaskets, 1.6TD lower intake manifold to match the head w/AAZ elbow, AAZ K03 w/downpipe just a couple of nuts and oil lines, then off to pressing in new engine mounts, installing brackets and injection pump, replacing a couple of gaskets and a t-belt job and this bad boy is going back in... oh, and modifying wither axles of my mk3 020 for use in a mk1. Fingers are crossed, but I doubt the downpipe is going to fit past the steering rack.


Reply #12June 10, 2013, 09:38:09 am

carrizog60

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 09:38:09 am »
boosted a jp engine for 2 years with a k24@30 psi with no problems.
cruising boosted almost 15psi at 3500rpm and never had issues after a aaz metal headgasket.dyno showed 139hp at flywheel.
boost doesent kill this engines,its heat.
too much fuel or too high EMP from a bad chosen turbo and even the TDīs will die...

sold that engine to a friend after almost 100.000km and today is still kicking and he has done as much km as i did.
gearboxes dont like that engine tho,heīs on its 3rd one  ;D
vw golf gti G60--vw passat 1.9td gt2052v
yamaha vmax 1200- yamaha tdm 850
Portugal

Reply #13June 16, 2013, 03:45:32 pm

akrallysport

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Re: 1.6 D Build (or 1.6 TD conversion)
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 03:45:32 pm »
Ok, due to some recent changes in vehicle needs (I need it in a week), the loss of yesterday and this morning sleeping off a 21hr shift at work, AND my OCD in terms of mechanical fit and finish I'm putting this conversion on hold. I think I can manage with NA for a while... however I will drop in the trans with the higher ratios in order to solve the trans leak and have everything ready for the eventual turbo install.