VW IDI Industrial / Marine engines

[RabbitJockey]

actually, if you can maintain a VACUUM in the crank case, its even that much better..

Not really. You need pressure inside the case for the oil seals. Plus, if you have a vacuum you will probably end up sucking dirt into the engine

alot of race engines keep vacuum in the crank and they make more power that way, but it involves a dry sump set up.  the vacuum pump blowing into the block is not any kind of an important job of the pump, obviously since gassers don't have it, and if u don't have power brakes u don't have it.

[TylerDurden]

Mark in the UK had the idea to run a vacuum pump without the vanes, for setups not req vacuum. As yet untested AFAIK, but might save time/effort.

[RabbitJockey]

relative:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25805.15

[danster]

Mark in the UK had the idea to run a vacuum pump without the vanes, for setups not req vacuum. As yet untested AFAIK, but might save time/effort.

That could be an option, but I have always found the slots on the diesel oil pump shaft and vacuum pump wear badly. If I can replace them with a splined gear setup then that would eliminate the problem and be the perfect solution.

relative:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25805.15

Interesting link.
I have slid the oil pump shaft with the slot into the vacuum pump and there is play. Not just play in the slots due to wear, but play due to there being a difference in the OD of the shaft to the ID of the gear, so with the gear being cut off the pump there is no support on the upper side and nothing to hold it concentric, therefore I would be concerned the gear could move around and not mesh correctly with the corresponding gear on the end of the IM shaft.

[R.O.R-2.0]

actually, if you can maintain a VACUUM in the crank case, its even that much better..

Not really. You need pressure inside the case for the oil seals. Plus, if you have a vacuum you will probably end up sucking dirt into the engine

Tyler, drag racing engines are under VACUUM 100% of the time.. they SUCK the CCV out of them..

Vacuum in the crank case even makes the rings seal better, so ive been told..

windage is also much less when under vacuum, again, so ive been told.. no actual experience with big drag motors..

[745 turbogreasel]

obviously since gassers don't have it, and if u don't have power brakes u don't have it.

Gassers do have a  vacuum pump, it's called an engine with a throttle plate.  there is a reason all of them have run PCV since it was invented.

[RabbitJockey]

obviously since gassers don't have it, and if u don't have power brakes u don't have it.

Gassers do have a  vacuum pump, it's called an engine with a throttle plate.  there is a reason all of them have run PCV since it was invented.

yeah but it is run to a spot that doesn't add or take pressure away and its there for emissions reasons.

[745 turbogreasel]

Yes and no, it does help with emissions.
It's also there because crankcase fumes are bad for the engine, and dangerous to the operator.

[danster]

LOL with all this talk of vacuum we are getting sucked off topic!  

But before I try to steer it back to the engines and just for thought, how can the vacuum pump create a vacuum in the crankcase? The pump is pulling a vacuum to the brake servo which is effectively a sealed chamber with no flow. There are no other ports that I can see on the pump, so if it is sucking on the inlet it must be pumping on the other engine side and possibly pressurising the crankcase. It can't be pulling a vacuum in both directions if there is no other outlet for the pressure side to go to.

Anyway I don't want a vacuum pump if possible, the engine can breath it's crankcase pressure into the inlet manifold as it was actually designed to do to keep the valve seats lubricated by the oil mist. Think I read that in a link posted by TrevOrb about the 1.5 engine.

Oh, and I just called a VW Industrial / Marine engine and parts supplier and the gear I need is still available, albeit at too high a price for a tight Scotsman to actually consider buying. I could buy muchos beer and another couple of engines for the price they wanted for it!  

I had a good chat with the guy and he was saying that the smaller car sized diesel VW industrial and marine engines are widely used in forklifts (up to approx 5 tonne), electrical generators, certain military equipment, and also the RNLI which is the British lifeboat search and rescue organisation use a twin TDI setup in their hovercrafts.  

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

LOL with all this talk of vacuum we are getting sucked off topic!  

But before I try to steer it back to the engines and just for thought, how can the vacuum pump create a vacuum in the crankcase? The pump is pulling a vacuum to the brake servo which is effectively a sealed chamber with no flow. There are no other ports that I can see on the pump, so if it is sucking on the inlet it must be pumping on the other engine side and possibly pressurising the crankcase. It can't be pulling a vacuum in both directions if there is no other outlet for the pressure side to go to.

Anyway I don't want a vacuum pump if possible, the engine can breath it's crankcase pressure into the inlet manifold as it was actually designed to do to keep the valve seats lubricated by the oil mist. Think I read that in a link posted by TrevOrb about the 1.5 engine.

Oh, and I just called a VW Industrial / Marine engine and parts supplier and the gear I need is still available, albeit at too high a price for a tight Scotsman to actually consider buying. I could buy muchos beer and another couple of engines for the price they wanted for it!  

I had a good chat with the guy and he was saying that the smaller car sized diesel VW industrial and marine engines are widely used in forklifts (up to approx 5 tonne), electrical generators, certain military equipment, and also the RNLI which is the British lifeboat search and rescue organisation use a twin TDI setup in their hovercrafts.  

The diaphragm type vacuum pump exhausts into the crankcase, generating a small amount of (negligible) pressure. The vane type vacuum pump exhausts into the atmosphere. Why not take a diaphragm type vac pump (cheap and easy to find), cut a few holes in the diaphragm (so it's not doing any work creating vacuum), plug the in/out ports and run it?

[R.O.R-2.0]

LOL with all this talk of vacuum we are getting sucked off topic!  

But before I try to steer it back to the engines and just for thought, how can the vacuum pump create a vacuum in the crankcase? The pump is pulling a vacuum to the brake servo which is effectively a sealed chamber with no flow. There are no other ports that I can see on the pump, so if it is sucking on the inlet it must be pumping on the other engine side and possibly pressurising the crankcase. It can't be pulling a vacuum in both directions if there is no other outlet for the pressure side to go to.

Anyway I don't want a vacuum pump if possible, the engine can breath it's crankcase pressure into the inlet manifold as it was actually designed to do to keep the valve seats lubricated by the oil mist. Think I read that in a link posted by TrevOrb about the 1.5 engine.

Oh, and I just called a VW Industrial / Marine engine and parts supplier and the gear I need is still available, albeit at too high a price for a tight Scotsman to actually consider buying. I could buy muchos beer and another couple of engines for the price they wanted for it!  

I had a good chat with the guy and he was saying that the smaller car sized diesel VW industrial and marine engines are widely used in forklifts (up to approx 5 tonne), electrical generators, certain military equipment, and also the RNLI which is the British lifeboat search and rescue organisation use a twin TDI setup in their hovercrafts.  

The diaphragm type vacuum pump exhausts into the crankcase, generating a small amount of (negligible) pressure. The vane type vacuum pump exhausts into the atmosphere. Why not take a diaphragm type vac pump (cheap and easy to find), cut a few holes in the diaphragm (so it's not doing any work creating vacuum), plug the in/out ports and run it?

nah, they both exhaust into the crank case..

EVEN THE vane pump..

and if you hook up a vacuum pump backwards, meaning that it was SUCKING the CCV out of the engine, thats how a dragster is set up..

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

LOL with all this talk of vacuum we are getting sucked off topic!  

But before I try to steer it back to the engines and just for thought, how can the vacuum pump create a vacuum in the crankcase? The pump is pulling a vacuum to the brake servo which is effectively a sealed chamber with no flow. There are no other ports that I can see on the pump, so if it is sucking on the inlet it must be pumping on the other engine side and possibly pressurising the crankcase. It can't be pulling a vacuum in both directions if there is no other outlet for the pressure side to go to.

Anyway I don't want a vacuum pump if possible, the engine can breath it's crankcase pressure into the inlet manifold as it was actually designed to do to keep the valve seats lubricated by the oil mist. Think I read that in a link posted by TrevOrb about the 1.5 engine.

Oh, and I just called a VW Industrial / Marine engine and parts supplier and the gear I need is still available, albeit at too high a price for a tight Scotsman to actually consider buying. I could buy muchos beer and another couple of engines for the price they wanted for it!  

I had a good chat with the guy and he was saying that the smaller car sized diesel VW industrial and marine engines are widely used in forklifts (up to approx 5 tonne), electrical generators, certain military equipment, and also the RNLI which is the British lifeboat search and rescue organisation use a twin TDI setup in their hovercrafts.  

The diaphragm type vacuum pump exhausts into the crankcase, generating a small amount of (negligible) pressure. The vane type vacuum pump exhausts into the atmosphere. Why not take a diaphragm type vac pump (cheap and easy to find), cut a few holes in the diaphragm (so it's not doing any work creating vacuum), plug the in/out ports and run it?

nah, they both exhaust into the crank case..

EVEN THE vane pump..

and if you hook up a vacuum pump backwards, meaning that it was SUCKING the CCV out of the engine, thats how a dragster is set up..

Thanks for correcting me. I must have gotten mixed up with certain Mercedes diesel model years where some exhaust into the crankcase and some exhaust into atmosphere.

[JamesT]

I'm considering getting a delete for my vacuum pump. As of now, it generates a peak of 10mmHg vacuum, and my brakes work great.
Is the splined oil-pump drive shaft sturdy enough to handle the deflection and side-loading of the gear, or does the plug also act as a support bearing for the gear?

[R.O.R-2.0]

I'm considering getting a delete for my vacuum pump. As of now, it generates a peak of 10mmHg vacuum, and my brakes work great.
Is the splined oil-pump drive shaft sturdy enough to handle the deflection and side-loading of the gear, or does the plug also act as a support bearing for the gear?

the shaft is the only support..

that bronze bushing under the gear is what handles ALL of the thrust loads..

[JamesT]

Maybe I'll just do the vacuum pump hack then.