VW IDI Industrial / Marine engines

[danster]

I am looking for some info on the VW IDI engines used in industrial / plant machinery and marine applications.
Mainly the 1.6 for a project I have on the go but it might be good to list differences and pictures if folk have them from all the other capacity engines for reference.

On automotive applications I have found the vacuum pump drive and the oil pump shaft slots can suffer from substantial wear. As I don't need the vacuum pump I was hoping to replace these and considered that the industrial engines may use a different setup as there is generally no need for a vacuum pump on a plant engine.

I had it all planned out and was going to replace the 1.6 IDI intermediate shaft with the one from an 8v petrol 1.6 or 1.8, fit the diesel timing belt drive pulley, then use the skew drive gear and oil pump from a 16v 1.8. Topping off the block hole with the 16v blanking plug where the vacuum pump or dizzy would normally sit.
Then I remembered the timing belt runs around the intermediate shaft pulley driving the shaft CCW on a diesel compared to the petrol versions that are turned CW.
Doh! So my plan was a fail as that would mean the oil pump would turn the wrong way as the skew gears on the IM shaft and pump drive gears are cut with the helix different ways on the diesel and petrol engines to turn rotate the oil pump correctly.

So do the industrial or plant engines use a different arrangement that does not have a vacuum pump?

Edited to include marine options.

[danster]

Update. I have been having a search through VAGCAT and it lists some vehicles fitted with early diesel engines that did not have a brake servo fitted. This was a note within the engine parts lists so presumably this means no vacuum pump would be incorporated on engines in those vehicles.
This could be a source for parts that would allow me to remove the vacuum pump.
Has anyone ever seen diesel engines without the pump fitted?

[rodpaslow]

My first diesel had manual brakes, no vacuum actuated brake servo to help with braking and therefore did not have any vacuum pump as it was not necessary.  (it has a plug with a gear on it to drive the oil pump) However, if my memory serves me right, this was a 1.5 engine, not a 1.6 l. I don't know if the plug and gear fits a 1.6.  I do not have the car or any parts but others may have something.

Just a note, my 2.0 16V car has a plug as the distibutor is on the head.  I bought this from Bahn Brenner.  I'm assuming this would work(maybe) if you could find the correct gear, as you are correct, the diesel turns the opposite direction of the gasser.

[RabbitJockey]

i think the only real difference was in the injection pump which had a different type of governor.  some of the old 1.5's came with block off setups instead of the vaccuum pumps from what i understand they are proprietary to diesels, i would imagine they'd work on 1.6's tho, not sure about aaz and tdi.  i have one of the 1.5 setups pump and all.

[745 turbogreasel]

Vac pump is required on diesels as it drives the CCV system.

[R.O.R-2.0]

Update. I have been having a search through VAGCAT and it lists some vehicles fitted with early diesel engines that did not have a brake servo fitted. This was a note within the engine parts lists so presumably this means no vacuum pump would be incorporated on engines in those vehicles.
This could be a source for parts that would allow me to remove the vacuum pump.
Has anyone ever seen diesel engines without the pump fitted?

beware, this setup is SUPER rare..

it requires a special splined-shaft oil pump, much like a 16v unit, but different as well..

the gear sits on the splined shaft, just like a 16v, with hold down cap containing the sliding weight..

so, if you went this way, you would need the super small 1.5D oil pump, the gear, and the hold down..

GOOD LUCK on your search.. never ever seen one of these setups for sale before...

[R.O.R-2.0]

Vac pump is required on diesels as it drives the CCV system.

the blow by vapors will still be pushed out of the engine just because its running, and producing MORE CCV gasses, so the existing gasses are still evacuated..

[745 turbogreasel]

If you don't wipe after you crap, you can still get your pants back on too.

[R.O.R-2.0]

If you don't wipe after you crap, you can still get your pants back on too.

the vacuum pump PRESSURIZES the block tho..

no internal pressure is what you are looking for..

actually, if you can maintain a VACUUM in the crank case, its even that much better..

PRESSURE inside a VW crank case is a bad thing.. makes them sweat oil..

[danster]

Thanks for the input so far folks. Please add anything else you can think of or even pictures of the parts or engines which would be helpful.

The project engine I am working on is not a high performance build. It's just a 1.6 N/A IDI engine that is only going to sit at a constant 1500rpm so the small oil pump from the 1.5 may well be suitable, or even just the drive gear and bits could be adapted. I suppose I could just cut down a vacuum pump but it seems a waste to do that.

In the past on petrol engines I have changed the actual pump gears by pressing out the drive shaft and refitting it to the later and larger gears and pump housing.

I have been having a search around and found this site.
http://www.autoshoppingcenter.com/Volkswagen/performance/engines_components/
It seems to have a lot of kit and a few marine applications which utilise a few out of the ordinary parts and ideas. (full steel sumps for Mk4s too!)

[R.O.R-2.0]

any better pics of the heat exchanger and exhaust manifold?

thats FRIGGEN COOL!!

i would SOO put a 1.6TD in my boat if i could..

[JamesT]

any better pics of the heat exchanger and exhaust manifold?

thats FRIGGEN COOL!!

i would SOO put a 1.6TD in my boat if i could..

You can! Go find some pathfinder marine parts and make it happen. Post pics.

[Powered by Spearco]

All you need is the gear for the oil pump for a diesel. NLA from the dealer. They were $350!!!  I've got two complete setups.

But if you did find one, a 1.8L 16V or 2.0L 16V oil pump has the splined shaft. But the top cap you want has to be from a 1.8L 16V due to the size of the hole your capping off.

I did find a new, non-servo brake assist, oil pump and gear at the local parts house for $80. But it was the old, early 30mm oil pump.
I pressed the gears off from that pump and a 36mm pump and pressed on the splined shaft to the 36mm gear, and presto. 

[danster]

any better pics of the heat exchanger and exhaust manifold?

thats FRIGGEN COOL!!

i would SOO put a 1.6TD in my boat if i could..

There is more info on marine kit in these links.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/diy-marinizing/marinizing-vw-turbodiesel-engines-19118.html
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/diy-marinizing/narrowboat-engine-23212.html

All you need is the gear for the oil pump for a diesel. NLA from the dealer. They were $350!!!  I've got two complete setups.

But if you did find one, a 1.8L 16V or 2.0L 16V oil pump has the splined shaft. But the top cap you want has to be from a 1.8L 16V due to the size of the hole your capping off.

I did find a new, non-servo brake assist, oil pump and gear at the local parts house for $80. But it was the old, early 30mm oil pump.
I pressed the gears off from that pump and a 36mm pump and pressed on the splined shaft to the 36mm gear, and presto. 

Thanks for that. I have been back on VagCat and with a bit more cross-referencing it looks like just a 1.6 diesel non vacuum pump oil pump drive gear will be all I require to make this work as I can use the 1.8 16v oil pump and block blanking plug.
The part number for the oil pump skew gear appears to be 068 115 027 B.

So does anyone happen to have an old junk engine that may have a suitable gear inside? 

[burn_your_money]

actually, if you can maintain a VACUUM in the crank case, its even that much better..

Not really. You need pressure inside the case for the oil seals. Plus, if you have a vacuum you will probably end up sucking dirt into the engine