Author Topic: G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2  (Read 146159 times)

Reply #135December 07, 2005, 11:08:40 am

jackbombay

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 599
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #135 on: December 07, 2005, 11:08:40 am »
Quote from: "malone"

* The piston protrusion was measured at .79mm, right in spec for a 1-hole headgasket. I was running a 3-hole headgasket.


  Any idea how much that lowered your compression?

Reply #136December 07, 2005, 11:24:51 am

malone

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1156
    • Malone Tuning Ltd.
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #136 on: December 07, 2005, 11:24:51 am »
Quote from: "jackbombay"
Quote from: "malone"

* The piston protrusion was measured at .79mm, right in spec for a 1-hole headgasket. I was running a 3-hole headgasket.


  Any idea how much that lowered your compression?


Nope, but I imagine the difference won't be much. 935racer may have before/after compression #s as he has the compression tester tool.
http://www.tunezilla.com
93 Eurovan AHU TDI
96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI - I bought it back!
97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L 1Z TDI - sold and missed
11 Golf 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Stage 4
14 Golf Wagon 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Sold
17 BMW 328d wagon - Sold
09 BMW 335d 3.0L

Reply #137December 07, 2005, 11:29:00 am

935racer

  • Guest
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #137 on: December 07, 2005, 11:29:00 am »
Unfortunately I didn't do a compression test before I pulled the head off, so we don't have any accurate measurements.

On a side note I already had some pre cups coated yesterday and when I installed them they did not sit flush in the head, I than pulled them out and measured them compared to the old ones and found out that the old one were 10 thou smaller than the new ones for measurement D and C as shown in the "IDI there is a future" post. This means at some point the head had been decked 10 thou. So now I have coated the old pre cups and will be reinstalling them today with the thinner headgasket in hopes of eliminating the at idle smoke.

*If you are installing pre cups measure the old ones and make sure they are at stock spec, if they aren't your head has been decked and you need to take the appropriate material off the pre cup.
Its the first time I have ever had this happen but thought I would mention it to help others avoid the inconvience.

Reply #138December 07, 2005, 02:46:39 pm

malone

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1156
    • Malone Tuning Ltd.
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2005, 02:46:39 pm »
Here's the diagram to coincide with 935racer's post above:



1.9TD Prechamber Cup:

A: 1.0975" (27.8765mm)
B: 1.2615" (32.0421mm)
C: 0.676" (17.1704mm)
D: 0.158" (4.0132mm)

Measurement D for the original precups pulled from my 1.9TD head was in fact 0.151". So the new ceramic coated precups with at least .158" did not sit flush in the apparently decked head. Thus, my original precups are being coated instead.

The new precups could be modified to fit in my 1.9TD head but while my original precups are already out I prefer to have these coated. We know they will sit perfectly flush again.
http://www.tunezilla.com
93 Eurovan AHU TDI
96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI - I bought it back!
97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L 1Z TDI - sold and missed
11 Golf 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Stage 4
14 Golf Wagon 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Sold
17 BMW 328d wagon - Sold
09 BMW 335d 3.0L

Reply #139December 07, 2005, 05:45:47 pm

andy2

  • Guest
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2005, 05:45:47 pm »
I was running a 3 notch on my AAZ with piston potrusion between .022-.026 thou thats the height recomended for the 1 notch gasket (.026-.033).I tested one cylinder on my rebuit engine before starting it (had not run yet) and I got 440 psi after about 4-5 cranks. I think each thickness equals about 20-30 psi,So if I had the 1 notch on there I would have seen somthing like 480-500 psi,Just a guess However I could be out to lunch :roll:.If I would have tested the compression after the engine was broke in the result (440psi) may have been higher?

Reply #140December 07, 2005, 05:52:37 pm

andy2

  • Guest
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2005, 05:52:37 pm »
BTW I too just got some new AAZ precups from altrom and thay sat up .025 thou from the deck.We had to install the precups and machine them down flush.It was a little tricky to machine as both aliminum and steel were being cut at the same time :lol:.

Reply #141December 07, 2005, 06:23:10 pm

jwspin

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 138
found the actuator
« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2005, 06:23:10 pm »
as per the suggestion above i checked out world impex and found the clutch actuator for pretty cheap. its not the complete kit but thats a sweet deal.
http://www.worldimpex.com/item_detail.html?sku=126798
im sure making the bracket and retrofitting your existing cable would be pretty easy. i have been waiting to buy one cause i cant justify 120 bux, i can justify 40 bux though.
nice beta rabbittdguy

-jared

Reply #142December 09, 2005, 09:12:57 am

malone

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1156
    • Malone Tuning Ltd.
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #142 on: December 09, 2005, 09:12:57 am »
Quote from: "andy2"
I was running a 3 notch on my AAZ


No wonder why your headgasket blew, these 1.5L gaskets are flimsy :lol: j/k.

It's interesting to know that you have to deal with the precup height/thickness too. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Quote from: "jwspin"
http://www.worldimpex.com/item_detail.html?sku=126798

I bookmarked the link for future reference, thank you!
http://www.tunezilla.com
93 Eurovan AHU TDI
96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI - I bought it back!
97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L 1Z TDI - sold and missed
11 Golf 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Stage 4
14 Golf Wagon 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Sold
17 BMW 328d wagon - Sold
09 BMW 335d 3.0L

Reply #143December 09, 2005, 09:16:13 am

malone

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1156
    • Malone Tuning Ltd.
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #143 on: December 09, 2005, 09:16:13 am »
Update: The ceramic coated prechamber cups and 1-hole headgasket are installed. The result? More white smoke at idle, if not the same. Quite the opposite of what I was expecting. If turning on glow plugs reduces the white smoke at idle, it makes me wonder if the ceramic coated prechamber cups are effective at all. Maybe only during higher EGT operation. Keep in mind that my entire prechamber isn't coated, just the precups. The area marked blue in the picture below is the only part that hasn't been coated:

Picture by RedRotors

... so for those of you who decide to coat the prechamber it may still be worth it... or maybe not.

935racer has a working & unmodified NA 1.6 injection pump that he will swap in today. Something might be up with my current pump not injecting to spec. The engine block & head seems healthy (damage & leak free) and we've tried brand new OEM injectors. Hopefully the pump swap solves the problem. More updates coming...
http://www.tunezilla.com
93 Eurovan AHU TDI
96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI - I bought it back!
97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L 1Z TDI - sold and missed
11 Golf 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Stage 4
14 Golf Wagon 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Sold
17 BMW 328d wagon - Sold
09 BMW 335d 3.0L

Reply #144December 10, 2005, 12:58:57 pm

malone

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1156
    • Malone Tuning Ltd.
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #144 on: December 10, 2005, 12:58:57 pm »
I'll agree with what you have said, something to consider next time.
http://www.tunezilla.com
93 Eurovan AHU TDI
96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI - I bought it back!
97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L 1Z TDI - sold and missed
11 Golf 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Stage 4
14 Golf Wagon 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Sold
17 BMW 328d wagon - Sold
09 BMW 335d 3.0L

Reply #145December 10, 2005, 03:35:38 pm

DVST8R

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 535
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #145 on: December 10, 2005, 03:35:38 pm »
What are the compression and leakdown numbers now?
The Brett of the board...



The Dark Side of Beauty.[/i]

Reply #146December 10, 2005, 03:44:10 pm

zagarus

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 619
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #146 on: December 10, 2005, 03:44:10 pm »
^ im so going there in the spring!!  

Im also hoping there will be a summer diesel package?  Or in other words, same stuff different oil (?) :)
Project 1.9TD Jetta Coupe Completed. Back in action!

Reply #147December 12, 2005, 12:06:56 pm

935racer

  • Guest
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #147 on: December 12, 2005, 12:06:56 pm »
Yes we will make some sort of diesel sumer package. As for the compression #'s I'll maybe get a compression test done this week, or whenever mark can bring the car back out here. Hopefully there will be no need for leakdown #'s you only do that when the compression is really low on a cylinder...

Reply #148December 15, 2005, 09:53:15 am

malone

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1156
    • Malone Tuning Ltd.
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2005, 09:53:15 am »
Here's an update on the white smoke issue @ zero/low engine load, which has continued for almost two months now. For those who haven't read about it before: After the engine is fully warmed up it'd still constantly blow white/blue smoke at idle or low RPM part throttle. The smoke pours out both sides of my car, I even got a serious comment from another guy (car) in his 30's in Vancouver saying that my car's "on fire!!!" :roll:

We tried the following with no success:

1) New injectors.
2) Pump timing from 0.85 to 1.15.
3) Fuel screw low/idle screw high and fuel screw high/idle screw low.
4) Swapped pumps.
5) Pulled head. The block & head looked to be in mint condition, pre-chamber cups were ceramic coated.

Here are some of my observations:

1) Driving above 2,000 RPM there's zero smoke. Zip, nada, none. Runs and sounds perfectly smooth.
2) Glow plugs switched on manually at idle = less white/blue smoke.
3) Engine shudders/misfires below 2,000 RPM at part throttle. However, if I go WOT off-idle, there's no shudder and white/blue smoke. I believe this is due to extra fuel = more heat.
4) Stopping immediately after driving, the smoke is not visible until about 5-10 seconds later until the EGT drops. Lowest EGT at idle is 300 degrees F, pre-turbo. 350-400 degrees is more common. However, maybe the reason I don't see the smoke immediately after stopping is because it takes a few secs for the smoke to rise up where it can be seen from the driver's seat.

Most of the above suggest that it may be lack of HEAT, causing the white/blue smoke... just like many healthy diesels blowing a little blue/white smoke when cold starting. I spoke with Giles two nights ago and he suggested that my TD may be consuming far too much air and I'm lacking heat. I'm also boosting approx. 1.5 PSI at idle. Of course! That makes sense. The 1.9TD head intake ports were heavily ported and the deck was modded for extra flow as well. This is such a simple problem and we went through all the trouble of doing other diagnosis for nothing! :)

I am still consuming oil, but there are a couple leaks at the oil pan, which will be fixed eventually.

Temporary solution (diagnosis): Install 1.6TD intake manifold to restrict airflow, but the head flow mods are still there. Another way is to remove intercooler piping to avoid boost at idle, and have the inlet of the PD130 intake inlet blocked at least 75% to restrict airflow into the engine.

Permanent solution: Bigger turbo to avoid boost at idle :P Reinstall original EGR valve to the PD130 intake and have the EGR plate, or shall I call it "throttle plate", be in closed position @ below WOT to restrict airflow into the engine. It should result in a richer air/fuel mixture & more heat.

A blow-off valve would be installed between the turbo compressor and throttle plate to purge excess boost in case throttle is closed at high boost. Who would have expected that a BOV will finally serve a purpose in a little IDI :)

Now... we tried the temporary solution last night. We took the intercooler piping off and I drove around a little more to ensure that the coolant temp is optimal (approx. 90 degreees C or 190 degrees F). Stopped the car, covered the PD130 intake inlet with a hand (about 75% blocked). Revved the engine in neutral... still lots of smoke :( no difference. It was dark but the smoke may have been more grey-ish than white.

DVST8R mentioned that some Cummins use an intake heater as opposed to glow plugs for cold starts. We can experiment by using a heat gun directly into the intake inlet of my IDI. If it works well, then I'll have to make some form of intake heater, with a customized "race pipe". This may be more simple and effective than a mechanically actuated throttle plate + BOV. BTW an electrically actuated throttle plate is a possibility, it can be wired to the OEM WOT switch on the fuel pump so the plate opens completely at WOT.

Another possible problem to consider is that the geometry between the 1.9 head and 1.6 block may be a bit off. Or it could be the deck modification. While the enhanced airflow above 2,000 RPM is phenomenal, fuel/air combustion quality may have been sacrificed at low load. Perhaps the swirl characteristic in the intake ports were reduced a bit too much? Or do these exist in TDIs only? There is an interesting direct injection diesel that has two intake ports routed into one valve. At low RPM only one intake port with maximum swirl capability is open.. when upper RPM is reached, the other port (more straightforward=more flow) is opened. It's like the VNT of head intakes.

Still.. if I go WOT below 2,000 RPM it shudders and smokes less (compared to part throttle) so adding more heat may be sufficient.

Comments?
http://www.tunezilla.com
93 Eurovan AHU TDI
96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI - I bought it back!
97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L 1Z TDI - sold and missed
11 Golf 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Stage 4
14 Golf Wagon 2.0L CJAA TDI DSG - Sold
17 BMW 328d wagon - Sold
09 BMW 335d 3.0L

Reply #149December 15, 2005, 10:18:34 am

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
G-Teched my 1.6TD - Part 2
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2005, 10:18:34 am »
Your excessive idling EGTs and smoking indicate inefficient combustion is happening at idle.  I would expect to see the EGTs of a good running VW Diesel drop below 200 deg F at idle if you wait long enough (or certain get to around that point.)  The 1.9 head is definitely a possiblity... if it dropped the compression ratio too much it wouldn't be making enough heat to fully combust the mixture at idle RPMs.  Have you run any calcs of done any testing to see what compression ratio you have?  Are the ring seated in?  Leak down (to test ring seal only) or compression (might give you a clue to the CR) numbers would be useful to know.

Also, are you using a low-temp thermostat?  If so, you might consider running the coolant hotter, closer to the OEM thermostat level.  You also want your oil to get up to boiling temps often to keep it free of moisture build-up anyway.  Might help a little... just a thought.  Are your oil temps rising as well?  You probably don't want to be using an external oil cooler unless it's thermostatically controlled on this motor.

That is also really interesting that you noticed after dropping the RPMs, the smoke doesn't appear for a little bit.  It sounds like it's cooling off due to inadequate compression of the 1.9 head.  You could always fall back to bumping up your idle RPMs as a temporary or even a permanent solution.  IMO it would be much easier on the motor mounts and probably idling fuel consumption even to raise the RPMs to get rid of missing than idling at "proper" idle RPMs with missing and sporadic, poor combustion occurring.

If you feel so inclined... now would also be a good time to experiment with ceramic coatings on any or all of the aluminum surfaces of the combustion chamber and piston tops.  I know you've had the head off and on a few times though and that can get hard to keep doing, but put it on your list for "next time".

Finally, I don't buy the consuming too much air at idle being the culprit idea.  Diesels are harder to start at high altitudes where the air is thinner, not easier.  I believe the thinner air makes their compression pressures and temperatures lower.  You'd think the reverse might be true if there were extra air.

The VNT 1.6 Rabbit had no problem idling with vanes completely closed which caused a little bit of boost pressure at idle.  1.4 psi is only 9% more absolute pressure than atmospheric.  Those mods you did to open up the breathing at higher RPM I doubt would help volumetric efficiency at anything but very high RPMs.

Another thought - if your glow plugs being turned on during idling adequately solved the situation, (it would be easy enough to temporarily wire them to 12V while the engine is idling to test this...) you might be able to rig up an RPM-dependent switch to turn them on whenever the RPMs dropped below a certain amount.  That would be a unique solution and IMO, pretty cool and easy to do if it actually worked.  I think the new Bosch duraterm glowplugs can be run for long periods without overheating like the early glow plugs do, so they would be a good choice for this kind of use.
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits