WMO ratios, climate, etc.

[ToddA1]

Hey, I've been lurking for weeks and finally joined.  Bought my first ('82) diesel Rabbit 08/10/09 (after 15+ years of gas Rabbits) and finally have been driving it regularly. 

The waste oil thing fascinates me, and I'm curious if it's really worth it, after factoring initial cost, upkeep and my time.  I have access to more WVO than I could ever use, but I'm shying away from it after reading all of the details.  I'll stick with WMO.

Although an ideal set up, the homemade centrifuges seem like they're more trouble than they're worth.  They need to be monitored, and the retail units are way too expensive for me.  I'm thinking filter bags will be the easiest & cheapest for me.  Figure about $5 each after shipping for 10 and 1 micron bags.  They're slightly less if you start buying the dual filter bags.  How long can I expect filter bags to last?  Obviously, results will vary, but on average, how many gallons will a trade 4 (4"x14") bag filter? 

The search has shown crazy ratios, too; I read some running 100% waste products.  I was thinking 2-3 gallons of WMO to 7-8 gallons of diesel in the winter, and perhaps up to 50/50 in the summer.  I'm not looking to ruin the engine & injection system, so I want to keep it reasonable. 

For those doing this, please post the ratios you use in relation to the temperature.

-Todd

P.S.
I've also read about heated filters.  Is this just thermal tape wrapped around the standard fuel filter?

[MizpahPAH]

Hey Todd

I dont have any experience with WVO or WMO been working out the bugs on my Jetta in hopes of starting to at least run WVO.

Just wanted to say hey, I live down in Mizpah. its between Hammonton and Mays Landing.

I havent seen many people in south jersey on these forums.

Pete

[OM617]

Running WMO, besides being illegal, is also very harmful to the environment. Unless you're running it through a centrifuge it also contains wear metals that are very abrasive to the injection system.

[Wayland]

I've tried it an a very limited and experimental  basis, and it seems to me that anything more than 10% and it starts to stink/smoke. It seemed to improve mileage slightly, but then again, if you damage expensive engine parts, are you really saving in the long run?

[maxfax]

homemade centrifuges seem like they're more trouble than they're worth.  They need to be monitored, and the retail units are way too expensive for me.

All depends on what you consider expensive, or too much trouble...  Replacing injection components can get rather prices and be a pain in the ascot too...  As mentioned, used oil contains wear metals..  I suppose with enough heating and settling some *might* settle out, but for the most part they will remain suspended in the oil..  Filter bags aren;t going to be near enough to filter it out, and will tend to fill up with crap rather quickley....

AS far as how much to mix, 10% - 20% seems to be in the ideal range pending on the ambient temp...

There are the ones that essentially are some variety of electrically heated wrap that goes around the filter itself as you mentioned. Most of the heated filters I have seen out there either have some sort of internal heating element, or have a heat exchanger that has coolant circulating though it.. Remember that an electrically heated whatever is going to put additional drain on your charging system.. You may want to check out Vegtherm..

[dieselherb1]

Centrifuge is the only way to go! I know of people who use up to 50%. There are several websites for more info. biodieselinfopop is one.

[ToddA1]

Hmmmm...  well if I had to ante up for the centrifuge, I figure I'd have at least $100 into it, at a minimum.

If running a 20% concentration, I'm saving $6 @ $3 per gallon. 
If I fill up once every 1.5 weeks, that's about 35 fills per year.
That's $210 savings for the first year, but then I need to back out my $100 initial start cost, and factor my time.  Add the fact that I'm now storing dirty (filtered) oil.

Doesn't seem like it'd be worth it unless I drove more, fuel keeps rising in price or I can run higher concentrations.

I'll have to keep thinking about this....

-Todd

[Wayland]

Suppose running all that old oil through your IP screws something up prematurely. How many years of "saving" would it take to pay for that?

[ToddA1]

The oil would be filtered to 1 micron.  From my understanding, the fuel/water filter is good down to 25 microns.  I was actually looking to filter the oil into 5 gallon buckets and have the drain (ball valve) several inches from the bottom.  There would be magnets at the bottom to help collect ferrous metal that the filter missed.  The oil would also sit for a week or so.  As long as it's properly filtered, I've heard the the benefits are better milage and a happily lubed IP.

I'm not pioneering this; there are many in this forum (and other non-VW based forums) that already do so, and have been doing it successfully for many years/miles.  Many of these people are running more than WMO, too.

I was mainly looking for opinions from people who do so, but all opinions are welcome. 

-Todd

[maxfax]

I've run it 50/50 mixed with WVO in the WVO tank..  Definitely better power and milage than straight WVO.. Doesn;t smell quite as nice, and I may get a tad more smoke...  Never mixed it with my diesel though..  I like having that plain ole tank of diesel to switch back to just in case...

I've been very selective on the WMO I use, nothing from a failed engine, or a farm tractor....  Stuff from the 100 mile a day commuter cars is what I have burned..  I tired a batch thought my WVO filtration system, the results were ok(extensive testing may prove otherwise)..   THe filters plugged much faster though... I have a buddy running it though his centrifuge now, and the results are much better.. (In the process of building one for myself).. There have been plenty of others that have run it, and so far so good I guess..  I know some of them just use some method of filtration, not a centrifudge.. Don;t have any milage figures though....

AS far as a ratio I have head those going up to 50% but it's smokey..   I'll correct my earlier post, the most common numbers I've heard in use is 20 - 30 percent.. You may just have to toy with your mix a bit to see what suits you... You may even need to vary your mix for the seasons..   Stronger in summer and weaker in the the cold months...

It does make alot of difference on how much you drive versus how much you are gonna save... I average 40K - 60K miles a year so it doesn;t take long for me to see some savings burning either WVO or WMO..  THe amount of driving you do it probably isn;t really worth the hassle for the small savings unless fuel goes crazy again...   

[ToddA1]

20-30% ratio make make it more feasible for me.  I also never factored the 50/50 ratio I mentioned into my savings equation.

How are you filtering your oil, now?  Any insight with the centrifuge that you're building?  I've read one DIY, where someone used a juicer and got good results.  I may look for a cheap/ used router on Craigslist or Ebay.

I think I read your thread, where you kept pushing the ratios since you had a cracked block?

-Todd

[maxfax]

The filtration system I have for WVO consists of a tank with a heating element, and a series of 3 filters with a pump sucking it though everything...  THe oil is pulled out of the heated tank from about 3" from teh bottom, and it has a drain on the very bottom that I open form time to time...  I also have a 275 gallon tank outsude that I use as storage for what I collect..   It'll sit in there and settle for a while before use..   I pull the oil out if it from the top with a floating suction hose and pump... The biggest downfall with this is the expense of filters..

The WMO is getting run though a firends centrifuge..  Not really sure what and how he built it, but I'll be finding out shortly...  Once I get time to look over his setup and build one I'll be using it for all filtration...


ANd yes I have a junk engine with a cracked block that I'll be replacing shortly..  I haven;t been too concerned over what happens to it so I been dumping all sorts of crap though it.. I've only gone to 50/50 at this point..   A little smokey and stinkey, but tolerable for me..  Since the WVO doesn't make alot of blact sooty exhaust it balances out..  Keep in mind this 50/50 ratio is in a heated fuel system..1111111

[ToddA1]

So your friend is centrifuging all of you WMO, presently?  About how long does it take to do 1 gallon?

Are you dewatering your WVO?  That was the main thing that deterred me from WVO.  I heard that the water can cause some serious problems.

-Todd

[fdnyguy]

Check this out if you want to.

http://www.bluegrassfuel.net/page3.php

Cost about a grand. But seems to work and you don't have to build one.

Be safe, be well. Jimmy

[ToddA1]

Interesting....  I didn't think of mixing the diesel and waste oil prior to filtering it.  That would make running the oil through whole house filters much easier.  I also liked the SS filter screens that you just wash clean.

No centrifuging, either, but I'm sure it's way better.  This has got me wondering about building a similar rig.  There really isn't much to that set up.

-Todd