WMO ratios, climate, etc.

[OM617]

None of this changes the fact that burning WMO is illegal and very environmentally harmful.

[maxfax]

So your friend is centrifuging all of you WMO, presently?  About how long does it take to do 1 gallon?

Honestly, I'm not sure..  I've only caught a brief glimpse of his machine..   He's been cleaning his own used oil and sending it over...  I'll ask him when I see him this week..

Are you dewatering your WVO?  That was the main thing that deterred me from WVO.  I heard that the water can cause some serious problems.

Yes...   THe first step in the filtering rig is a simple heat and settle procedure..   Once again a centrifudge would work better but so far the results have been testing okay...  With WVO there's ALOT more to worry about than just water..  Proper heating and acidity of the oil also factor in there heavily...

[SolarSteve]

Does anyone have any experience with how acidic WVO will damage engine componets?  Perferably first hand expirence.

thanks

[maxfax]

None yet..  The green '81 is going on 170K WVO miles.. It's probably about due to have the injectors checked out as they have about that many miles on them..  The pump has NEVER been touched, not even resealed since 1981..  I've been wating for it to start peeing at any time..

The silver '81 has about 90K wvo miles..  Pump started peeing about 25K into it...  I'm sure they nay sayers will say the WVO caused the leak, not the fact that it was 26 years old with 340K on it.   New seals and governor mod and it's been fine ever since....

When I was doing my research into running the stuff all the talk of acid damaging things had me plenty worried.. Not that acidic fuel is a good thing... I've just been careful about the WVO that goes in, a little PH testing and I've dodged that bullet so far..   Normally anything with less than a 6.5 PH goes in the waste oil burner..   But I have run stuff as low as 5.5 when it was in short supply last summer...

[ToddA1]

I've been reading about centrifuging, too. 

Seems it needs to filtered to at least 100 microns first, then spun at least 3-4 times if you expect to get it to 1 micron (or below) standards.  Heating the oil to 100*-150* before spinning is recommended.  It's supposed to dewater WVO, too.

Any particular reason you're into WVO if you get unlimited access to WMO?  There seem to be so many more factors that need to be taken into consideration; I couldn't imagine taking on the task of biodiesel. 

-Todd

[SolarSteve]

I know of guys (frybrid forum) that only prefilter down to 600 micron before CF'ing.  If you get a pressure CF (Dieslecraft) you will need to prefilter to around 100 micron, if you use an absolute CF (Simple centrifuge) almost no preiltering.  I am in the process of copying the simple CF.

As far as WMO goes, a lot of people will tell you it is a bad source of pollution, but when you recycle it, someone else is burning it, so...

If you have plenty of it and filter/dewater it properly I would say burn it in the engine, we're all burn so degree of WMO as is.

I haven't done a thing with my WVO as far as acidity goes.  I have around 25K on my motor on VO.  The motor has a total of 310K, original, never been re-built.  Its slow (N/A) but runs strong.  I really want to do the gov mod, but I'm a little nervous and don't know what the best "shim" to use on the spring.  I will be doing the advance mod as soon as I feel like pulling the alternator again.

[maxfax]

Any particular reason you're into WVO if you get unlimited access to WMO?  There seem to be so many more factors that need to be taken into consideration; I couldn't imagine taking on the task of biodiesel. 

Probably the main reason is that there was more information and testimonials available for WVO at the time...  I started running the stuff about 7 years ago... THe other thing was that I knew about the metals in WMO and knew that was asking for trouble,  now that I know a bit more about centrifuging and such I've been more willing to try it..   Since the cars are already set for WVO I just dump straight WMO in the same tank with some WVO...

[maxfax]

As far as WMO goes, a lot of people will tell you it is a bad source of pollution, but when you recycle it, someone else is burning it, so...

Bingo...  Granted not all of it is burned but processed into other whatnot..  But it still take energy to transport it and process it..

I haven't done a thing with my WVO as far as acidity goes.  I have around 25K on my motor on VO.  The motor has a total of 310K, original, never been re-built.  Its slow (N/A) but runs strong.  I really want to do the gov mod, but I'm a little nervous and don't know what the best "shim" to use on the spring.  I will be doing the advance mod as soon as I feel like pulling the alternator again.

Generally most of the WVO I've collected has been between 6.5 and 7 on the ph scale..   It's rare that I find some more acidic..  There was one place that must have burned the heck outta the stuff for years before they changed it (I don;t eat there anymore).. It was nasty and the most acidic WVO I have ever gotten..  I suspect that they may have put some of their wash water in with it when the put it in the drum out back as it was always quite watery too...

For now I've been running on my free 1,000 of new soy oil..   The local wood pellet plant sprays their dyes with it before pressing pellets..   THey had the top of their storage tank open and it got a bunch of saw dust in it.. With no filtration on their system, and drawing the oil from the bottom of the tank they were having tons of problems..  A buddy works maintenence there and told me they needed to dispose of all this oil (within 4 hours) so that they could clean their tank out and get new... I managed to scrape together 4 275 gallon tanks and strap them to my trailor to get the stuff..  I left it settle and pump it off the top.. It's been great!

[ToddA1]

Geez, other than your time, it seems you drive for free, lol.  About how many gallons of actual diesel do you think you burn, over the course of a year?

-Todd

[maxfax]

Time, filters, and the occasional headache..   It does vary especially with the weather..  Druing the hotter months I was averaging 1800 miles to the tank of diesel..   Last winter we had a few weeks were it never got warmer than 30 degrees and the majority of those days I ran only diesel..   

Last year I burned around 650 gallons of fuel and drove 59,000 miles...  Since everything does have to get warm short trips are diesel only... Colder days take more diesel.. My drive to work is about 40 miles, and some of my driving for work is longer, plus pleasure trips and such it works out well for me..  If I were only doing short trips all the time it would be totally worthless...

[SolarSteve]

For now I've been running on my free 1,000 of new soy oil..   The local wood pellet plant sprays their dyes with it before pressing pellets..   THey had the top of their storage tank open and it got a bunch of saw dust in it.. With no filtration on their system, and drawing the oil from the bottom of the tank they were having tons of problems..  A buddy works maintenence there and told me they needed to dispose of all this oil (within 4 hours) so that they could clean their tank out and get new... I managed to scrape together 4 275 gallon tanks and strap them to my trailor to get the stuff..  I left it settle and pump it off the top.. It's been great!

HOLY CRAP!!  I would have been dancing in the streets for that haul!  You would have seen me smiling through the web on your screen if that was me!

Good for you, what a score!!

[SolarSteve]

Geez, other than your time, it seems you drive for free, lol.  About how many gallons of actual diesel do you think you burn, over the course of a year?

-Todd

My commute is 40 miles each way.  In the coldest days of winter it take my car 2 miles to get to temp before switching to WVO and 1 mile to purge so for 80 miles I am driving on D2 for 6 miles of it.  I put about 20,800 miles just going back and forth to work.

The Jetta is a bit old and not very pretty, but certainly reliable.  My wife rarely gets in it, although she claims she doesn't mind.  I have 2 small kids too and swapping the car seats in the Jetta is a PITA, especially because they weren't using the LATCH system in 1991.  All of that being said, occasionally we will pile into the Jetta and visit family, but its got to be cold out because the A/C never worked and tore most of it out!!

[maxfax]

WOW 2 miles to warm up..   I was dancing over the free oil deal, but I'd be exstatic with a warm up that fast in the silver car...  I'm not even talking about getting the WVO warm, just getting the engine up to temp that fast...  That one has been a cold blooded sob since day one..  I expect the day before I swap the engine I'll get to the bottom of that...

[SolarSteve]

The Frybrid system automatically switches over to VO when the coolant temp right off the head reaches 170F.  At that temp the VO will be around 150F.  I am still using the stock gauge in the cluster that has the large white line on the left then a skinny, then a skinny in the center and then 2 more skinnies to the right of that.  It takes 2 miles in the winter, a little shorter in summer for the needle to reach the first skinny line.  About 1 needles width after that line, it switches over, consistantly, everytime.

You may want to place a piece of cardboard or plywood in front of the radiator to help it heat up faster.  Thats what I do in the winter, but it doesn't seem to warm up any quicker...  Also, (and I still need to do this) you can buy a Mercedes electric aux coolant pump to help pull the coolant through your VO system.  Everyone I have heard from that has done this has said it speeds switch over time in half.

Finally, insulate everything has has to do with VO, especially the temp sensor if you use one (Frybrid).  Do not insulate your VO tank.

[maxfax]

THe aux water pump does wonders!!   (FYI the Chevy Venture & Pontiac Montana minivans now use them too)...  It was night and day difference on the green car.. I have one on the silver car but it all comes down to the darned engine just doesn;t get warm very fast, if at all on some days..Blocking the radiator does help it at least get up to and maintain the proper temp, but not very much faster...

I put a restrictor in the bypass hose (between the head and water pump) and that has made the biggest improvement.. I was considering trying the umpteenth billionth thermostat in it to see what happens..   This time I'm buying the cheapest piece of crap I can find..  (Can anyone suggest a vendor for that  ) None of the quality ones have made much difference...

THe Green car works flawlessly..  I have the temps set a bit higher on the auto switch over (coolant 190 at the head, oil 170 to the pump)..  EVen below freezing it warms up and switches over within 3-4 miles..  And it even has the larger 15 gallon tank versus the 8..   The silver car has the same settings as the green, but I've had it set for manual switch over.. I've been switching at roughly the sames temps you are..   Descending mountains on a 45 degree day has been known to cool the engine off too much and set off the low coolant temp alarm...