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why is my oil 100% completly SLUDGED up!?!?
by
the4ork
on 26 Apr, 2006 18:03
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oil is about 1800miles old...
20w50 valvoline synpower...
today i developed a REALLY bad rod knock/lifter tick. the loudest ive ever heard. could possibly be a bent valve.... its loud, sounds like when my buddy bent a valve in his 16v...
gets faster with engine rpm...
pulled the VC off the head to see if i could see any obvious damage to the lifters.... and under the vc was the blackest i had ever seen... EVER! it was like blacker than black!
not only that, its all curdled and really nasty looking. and extremely thick. WHY?
and is my motor shot?
i was planning on taking it to get the oil completely flushed.... new oil and filter...
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#1
by
745 turbogreasel
on 27 Apr, 2006 00:06
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What are the chances you burnt some cold veg or bad biodiesel?
My friend had similar symptoms in his '98 ram. we know the PO had done both of these things. Engine dissasembly reveald the entire engine coatid in heavy slime that is not removed my 4 DAYS in hte hot tank at the machine shop. 4 pistons were sticking to(and scratching the hell out of) the bore wth the rings all stuck in this crud. Engine was around 200K, should have gone another 100 at least. Depressing, yes, but the truck will be sooo much better with a rebuilt motor and a 6 speed swap.
If you remove the oil cap with the engine running, does a lot of smoke come out? Blowby contaminants in the oil might do that.
Try cracking each injector fitting loose with the engine running TAKE APPROPRIATE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. if the knocking goes away, most likely it is that rod bearing or that injector is bad..
Try to clean the inside of the valve cover with some mild solvent/ engine flush. If it doesn't clean up, you'll be taking it apart
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#2
by
TDForNow
on 27 Apr, 2006 02:22
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Sounds like you've been running gasser oil. Check the back of the bottle, in the API service circle, see if it has "CD", "CF", etc listed for diesel use and not just "SF", "SG", etc for gasser use only. Oils for diesels have extra additives and detergents to handle the soot and the extreme temperature variations in diesels. I'm not sure if Valvoline "synpower" is rated for diesel use. Untill recently, most common light duty synthetic's weren't. Some Mobil 1 and Castrol "syntec" grades now are. The heavy duty synthetics such as Mobil 1 "delvac" and Shell "Rotella" synthetic were the only ones, in addition to mfg spec oils, that were avaliable for diesel use. This also applies to non-synthetic oils as well.
Hopefully that knock is a gummed up lifter. Keep an ear on it. If while you're flushing, it doesn't get better or gets worse, it time to stop and pull the pans and check it really good.
After you flush it out good, run two gallons of Shell Rotella synthetic 5W40 about 200 miles each gallon with a fresh filter each time, to finish cleaning it out. It's inexpensive oil (@ $14/gal at Walmart) but it got a really good additive pkg to help clean it up and condition you're seals after the flush.
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#3
by
jtanguay
on 27 Apr, 2006 03:20
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I drove my 1.6TD around with some broken valves/lifters. Fuel economy was crap, but the car did move. Sounded like some bad tick, and the occasional knock at low rpm. If your oil looks that bad, do the flush right away. If it looks like hard carbon deposits, one flush probably won't dissolve that.
In your case, if the oil is completely sludged, then oil starvation is probably ruining your motor
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#4
by
the4ork
on 27 Apr, 2006 12:03
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well i changed the oil out with some durablend oil... 10w40... sounds like again i might be using the wrong oil...
maybe i will take it to a service place ( dammit ) and get the oil flush treatment and new oil/filter....
when i drained the oil it seemed about a quart or maybe more low... b/c i think alot of it is stuck and sludged in the motor... however, adding 4qrts did fill it back up to normal, so either the sludge hasent broken free yet... or it was just a quart +/- low... ( dammit ) you coulnt tell with the dipstick before, the oil was too bad and coulnt get a good reading...
i dont know if this was a horrible idea or not... but i was told by a few people to pour about a quart of gasoline in the oil fill with the drain plug out and let it run through...
i did that and let it sit for about an hour to make sure all of the gas drained out, or at least most of it. i was told this will help break up the sludge.
also i poured a bottle of pro-long oil treatment in it... about 8oz of seafoam, and about 8oz of lucas oil stabalizer...
i plan on driving it around for about 30 miles, get it real hot and draining the oil hot. maybe if i do it hot (as opposed to cold) it will help get the sludge out.
right now the noise hasnt gotten any worse, nor better. but it DEF. runs alot better.
on the injector thing. just crack a line open so it sprays fuel everywhere or what?
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#5
by
addautomotive
on 27 Apr, 2006 12:05
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i dont know if this was a horrible idea or not... but i was told by a few people to pour about a quart of gasoline in the oil fill with the drain plug out and let it run through...
First time I have ever, ever heard of that. Anyone else??
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#6
by
LeeG
on 27 Apr, 2006 12:31
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pour about a quart of gasoline in the oil fill with the drain plug out
Just running it though wont do much but clean the oil galleries in the head and the bottom of the pan. I havent heard of using gas for this, sounds explosive. I have heard of people filling an engine with diesel or kerosene to clean it out. I dont know how effective it would be without some agitation....maybe an air line down the dipstick tube for some bubbling action?
It is common practice in the marine world to fill a submerged engine with diesel to 'pickle it' as they call it. Basically prevent internal rust until it can be drained, filled and run up again. And by filling I do mean filling.
De-sludging an engine is risky, I once had a cheaply bought but good running 1 Ton that I knew hadnt seen a oil change in years. I did 2 or 3 cylces of changing oil and filter, running and draining. last drain came out pretty clean so I thought I was good to go. Wrong! within a few hundred miles it spun a big end rod bearing, disassembly showed there was still plenty of sludge caked inside the motor (with passages worn into it by the fresh high detergent oil). The oil passages in the crank were all plugged more or less solid with gunk. Engine probably would have lasted longer without the oil changes or using a oil without any detegent in it, if you can still buy such stuff.
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#7
by
745 turbogreasel
on 27 Apr, 2006 13:37
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Test your solvent for effectiveness before wasing time and money on an innefective solution.
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#8
by
jtanguay
on 27 Apr, 2006 13:49
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maybe the best option would just be to jack the car up, drop the oil pan, and actually inspect wtf is in there! Stop wasting money on that oil flush junk because its true, some chunk of whatever could be sent into the oil system, either plug up a passage, or get between a bearing somewhere and completely ruin an otherwise good motor.
Cheap, but dirty insurance if you ask me! Who knows where the sludge buildup could be hiding? Oil cooler, turbo+lines, oil squirters maybe? You basically want the sludge to pass through the oil filter first, but it may not work out that way
Oh yea about the gasoline in the engine to clean it out. Yes it does work... It does such a good job of thinning the oil so it spews right through all gaskets and seals. I have first hand experience because some drunk bastard poured gas into the oil tank of an Argo (very fun!). It ran... but oil was coming out of the exhaust... It was sooo thin! Changed the oil, and had to soak the air filter in gasoline to dissolve the oil (bad idea? lol). There was a nice POP after the motor was shut down too... for the longest time. Hehe.
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#9
by
fspGTD
on 27 Apr, 2006 22:48
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Moved to troubleshooting. IDI section is for performance mod discussions.
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#10
by
mvptrukin
on 28 Apr, 2006 11:29
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I agree with previous reply about checking CD/CF designations on oil also, have you been using antifreeze , a little in oil will do strange things to oil. I have never been a believer in after market additives to reduce sludge in engines until I tried the products @www.xcelplus.com .I used it on an engine with unknown condition that had been sitting for several years it reduced smokeand improved mileage.
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#11
by
the4ork
on 28 Apr, 2006 19:36
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ok...
so i took the valve cover off again and checked the lifters... they all seem to be slightly out of tolerance.... but i dont think thats where the noise is coming from. b/c when the motor is running an you pull the oil fill cap off it doesnt get louder. if it was a lifter the noise would be coming from it and it would be loudest at the vc....
i think its a rod knock....
because when i disconnect the fuel shutoff valve and turn the motor over i can still hear the sound. just not nearly as loud. its like a tick tick tick tick... and then when its running its like a CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK....
so i have the oil draining right now... when the motor cools off a little more i think im going to pull the oil pan.
is there a way to tell if you have a bad rod or bearing or main bearing or anything just by looking? maybe trying to wiggle it to see if anything is loose?
possibly have someone turn over the motor with just the starter while looking at it from a safe distance and listening to see if anything is blatently obvious?
do these sound like good ideas?
i hope its something easy to repair... this is my daily driver, and my only car at the moment. my GTI is in the middle of a g60 swap
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#12
by
jackbombay
on 28 Apr, 2006 23:47
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is there a way to tell if you have a bad rod or bearing or main bearing or anything just by looking? maybe trying to wiggle it to see if anything is loose?
Tap on the ends of the rods/bearing caps with a hammer and the bad one won't sound "solid" like the rest.
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#13
by
the4ork
on 29 Apr, 2006 01:43
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cool ill try that tomorrow. the pan is off now... didnt see anything out of the ordinary. no shards or shavings in the oil pan from what i can tell...
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#14
by
TDForNow
on 29 Apr, 2006 02:17
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ok...
because when i disconnect the fuel shutoff valve and turn the motor over i can still hear the sound. just not nearly as loud. its like a tick tick tick tick... and then when its running its like a CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK....
You know, could be the vacuum pump too. Older diaphram types made same noise when they were gummed up, the cam-plate was slapping pretty good. I had a vane type break a vane and make a similar noise. Good luck.
Alain