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84 rabbit will not idle.
by
ashleyroe
on 28 Jan, 2009 06:30
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i searched alittle and couldn't find anything.
recently me and my boyfriend have rebuilt an 84 rabbit 1.6. the head had gone out for machine work and we pretty much replaced everything else except the injection pump and bottom end.
a few days ago we had our first start, however, the car will not idle on it's own. i'll crank the car and my bf will hold the throttle slightly open and once it running it's fine. he chucks rev's and it sounds great. but the moment he lets go it stalls.
we timed the pump with the tool and everything. we did notice that it was way out. it had to be moved alot. also, the car did have a/c but we took out the compressor, condenser, and hoses. i don't know if that might have anything to do with it since there are those switches on the pump that i've noticed no other car has.
we were told to move the screw but i'm not sure if it's right to move it THAT much. i was also thinking that there still maybe air in the lines preventing it from running on it's own.
any help is appreciated because i'm new to diesels.
thanks.
ALSO: there is no alternator and pullies on the water pump at the moment, if that makes a difference. we've been using a battery charger for start ups till the rest of the parts come in. we only let the car run for 20 seconds at a time maybe twice a day after tweeking just to see if anything results.
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#1
by
Quantum TD
on 28 Jan, 2009 10:03
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If the car had been sitting for some time (like years) and then you rebuilt it, it may be the case that the vanes (feed pump) in the injection pump are stuck. It only takes a little bit of moisture to make the vanes get stuck, and freeing them up usually involves disassembling the pump.
If you have free fuel lines (feed and return) and a fresh fuel filter, then I'd say play with the idle screw. If you find that you REALLY have to crank up the idle screw to get it to idle right, then turn in the MAX fuel screw a bit to bring up the RPMs a bit more quickly.
Otherwise, I'd assume your pump needs some attention.
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#2
by
zukgod1
on 28 Jan, 2009 10:56
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I believe Quantum has cover the bases for ya..
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#3
by
dillenger1
on 28 Jan, 2009 12:03
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Sounds like the throttle lever shaft needs moved.Did you take the throttle lever off the shaft?
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#4
by
Rabbit TD
on 28 Jan, 2009 19:22
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i searched alittle and couldn't find anything.
recently me and my boyfriend have rebuilt an 84 rabbit 1.6. the head had gone out for machine work and we pretty much replaced everything else except the injection pump and bottom end.
a few days ago we had our first start, however, the car will not idle on it's own. i'll crank the car and my bf will hold the throttle slightly open and once it running it's fine. he chucks rev's and it sounds great. but the moment he lets go it stalls.
we timed the pump with the tool and everything. we did notice that it was way out. it had to be moved alot. also, the car did have a/c but we took out the compressor, condenser, and hoses. i don't know if that might have anything to do with it since there are those switches on the pump that i've noticed no other car has.
we were told to move the screw but i'm not sure if it's right to move it THAT much. i was also thinking that there still maybe air in the lines preventing it from running on it's own.
any help is appreciated because i'm new to diesels.
thanks.
ALSO: there is no alternator and pullies on the water pump at the moment, if that makes a difference. we've been using a battery charger for start ups till the rest of the parts come in. we only let the car run for 20 seconds at a time maybe twice a day after tweeking just to see if anything results.
Don't be to quck to worry about anything yet. Just the fact that you mentioned you used the timing tool tells me you boh have a pretty good idea what you are doing. You can't really diagnose anything until you get it runing with the cooling system hooked up and let the motor warm up a little. I would suggest if you haven't already done this is to fill your definately {new} fuel filter with a 50/50 diesel- ATF mix to help loosen up and clean the injectors and pump. At least get that mix into the pump and injectors doing your 20 sec. runs the way you are doing. This also seems to help with leaks too, but for how long though I don't know. Don't start turning screws right off the bat tough, you will probably create a problem you don't have now instead. If you set the timing at 1 m/m with the cold start in the off position it should run pretty decent with the cold start {on} for a while after you start it. Also make sure you have 4 working glow-plugs. Just don't expect miracles till you get it warmed up and run it a little with some ATF in it or some other form of lube-cleaner in the fuel. I think you are on the right track though
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#5
by
jtanguay
on 28 Jan, 2009 20:04
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i second the need for a new fuel filter. if you've already installed one, then it is a pump related issue.
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#6
by
ashleyroe
on 29 Jan, 2009 13:50
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Don't be to quck to worry about anything yet. Just the fact that you mentioned you used the timing tool tells me you boh have a pretty good idea what you are doing. You can't really diagnose anything until you get it runing with the cooling system hooked up and let the motor warm up a little. I would suggest if you haven't already done this is to fill your definately {new} fuel filter with a 50/50 diesel- ATF mix to help loosen up and clean the injectors and pump. At least get that mix into the pump and injectors doing your 20 sec. runs the way you are doing. This also seems to help with leaks too, but for how long though I don't know. Don't start turning screws right off the bat tough, you will probably create a problem you don't have now instead. If you set the timing at 1 m/m with the cold start in the off position it should run pretty decent with the cold start {on} for a while after you start it. Also make sure you have 4 working glow-plugs. Just don't expect miracles till you get it warmed up and run it a little with some ATF in it or some other form of lube-cleaner in the fuel. I think you are on the right track though
everything is new in the car. all new glow plugs, all new filtres of every kind (air, oil, fuel), new timing belt, tensioner.
only thing we didnt touch were injectors and the pump. the injectors were already new from the previous owner.
i know i am probably jumping to think something is wrong just because i'm impacient and want to see it run haha, and also the fact i never owned a diesel before.
we're gonna see what happens once we get the ABF serp set-up completed and let it run and work out it's problems on it's own. i'm sure it just needs to run and break in.
thank you for all your input though, it's very much appreciated.
my ABF alternator came in today so i'm just waiting on the 1.8t crank pulley with spacer and it will be all set.
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#7
by
jtanguay
on 29 Jan, 2009 14:55
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you didn't install a bigger alternator by chance did you???
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#8
by
ashleyroe
on 29 Jan, 2009 17:02
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90 amp alternator which i think is what it came with stock.
EDIT: 65 is stock on non a/c cars and 90 is stock on cars with a/c.
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#9
by
Rabbit TD
on 29 Jan, 2009 19:52
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Don't be to quck to worry about anything yet. Just the fact that you mentioned you used the timing tool tells me you boh have a pretty good idea what you are doing. You can't really diagnose anything until you get it runing with the cooling system hooked up and let the motor warm up a little. I would suggest if you haven't already done this is to fill your definately {new} fuel filter with a 50/50 diesel- ATF mix to help loosen up and clean the injectors and pump. At least get that mix into the pump and injectors doing your 20 sec. runs the way you are doing. This also seems to help with leaks too, but for how long though I don't know. Don't start turning screws right off the bat tough, you will probably create a problem you don't have now instead. If you set the timing at 1 m/m with the cold start in the off position it should run pretty decent with the cold start {on} for a while after you start it. Also make sure you have 4 working glow-plugs. Just don't expect miracles till you get it warmed up and run it a little with some ATF in it or some other form of lube-cleaner in the fuel. I think you are on the right track though
everything is new in the car. all new glow plugs, all new filtres of every kind (air, oil, fuel), new timing belt, tensioner.
only thing we didnt touch were injectors and the pump. the injectors were already new from the previous owner.
i know i am probably jumping to think something is wrong just because i'm impacient and want to see it run haha, and also the fact i never owned a diesel before.
we're gonna see what happens once we get the ABF serp set-up completed and let it run and work out it's problems on it's own. i'm sure it just needs to run and break in.
thank you for all your input though, it's very much appreciated.
my ABF alternator came in today so i'm just waiting on the 1.8t crank pulley with spacer and it will be all set.
It sounds like you really did it up nice with all the new parts you put in the engine and especially thinking about the timing belt tensioner, a lot of people don't give it a second thought. Your serpentine belt setup should be nice too. I think your pump and injectors will be fine as long as they didn't get water in them and rust somwhere along the line, just run it with some good cleaner-lubricant for a couple tanks but start it off with a fuel filter full of a good mixture of Diesel-ATF or some mixture like that of your choice. I like the ATF on a first start on the pump and injectors, you can use it 100% if you want and it is relatively cheap and you can get it anywhere. There are a million different aditives for diesel and i'm sure they all work but you don't have to worry about too much ATF doing something to your seals. Fill up the filter, throw a quart in the tank and run the little beast and I bet he'll be fine in a day or so if not sooner :lol:
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#10
by
ashleyroe
on 30 Jan, 2009 05:03
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i'll be sure to get some atf in there.
i did use some power service in the fuel filter and in the tank.
there's maybe two new gallons of diesel in the car but i cant put much more till i drive around because the car already had 3/4 of a tank in it.
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#11
by
ashleyroe
on 12 Mar, 2009 15:41
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we were able to get the car running by moving the idle screw a TON.
and we did drive it for maybe a minute down the street.
however, we had lost most of the throttle pedal. and had absolutly no power.
so we turned the screw back and the pedal is normal now.
we have not driven it since.
we're gonna finish up the pullies just waiting on the belt to come in.
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#12
by
fatmobile
on 12 Mar, 2009 21:45
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Sounds like you might have to pull the accelerator lever and rotate it a notch.
That'll raise the idle, allow you to back the idle screw out and give you plenty of peddle travel.
This special tool should be a great help:
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#13
by
ashleyroe
on 17 Mar, 2009 10:40
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since i had the day off today i went down and screwed with the car alittle bit.
i still can't get it to run.
if i hold the throttle pedal down enough that the lever isn't touching the first upshift switch, the car runs. but like i said before it has no power.
i sat there and tried and tried starting it normally.
glowing, tried starting. nothing.
glowed, pulled out cold start, tried starting. nothing.
glowed, held down throttle, started.
minute i let off the throttle, it dies.
i even though maybe something with the upshift idle switch might have something to do with it. i did notice, i dont think the relay for the upshift is in.
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#14
by
Vincent Waldon
on 17 Mar, 2009 11:03
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Two quick questions to help the diagnosis:
- what timing value did you set the pump to?
- when it is coughing away is there smoke out the exhaust pipe, and if so what colour ?