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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ventureforth on October 10, 2010, 12:15:13 pm
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Getting ready to replace injectors on my 1.6NA. It seems light a pretty straightforward job, but my time is so tight and the Rabbit is my DD, so I want to make sure I only start the job if I'm sure I can finish it before I need the car again. So, what is worst case scenario, best case scenario, average for a job like this?
Obviously, I realize something could break or crack or get damaged and that throws everything off. But assuming all goes relatively smoothly, what can I expect?
Thanks.
Any tips would be appreciated, too, though I have been reading up on the forums and think I have a pretty good sense of what to expect.
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All you really have to do is is pull the injector lines, then pull the injectors. It would help to put some strong penatrant on them like the night previous to doing this. Im pretty sure you have to change the heat shields in the head that the injectors sit in.
Anyways, once you get the old injectors out it is very straight forward, do the heat shields, put the new injectors in (Im not sure if there is any type of lubricant or anything you should use on the new injectors) torque up the injectors, put the fuel lines on then your good to go.
Remember to crack your injector lines at the injectors when you start your car again, since there will be air in your lines. It is a pretty simple to do.
Im sure everyone will chime in if I missed anything. ;D
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Always push towards the head when loosening or tightening the injectors otherwise the injector boss could crack and then your troubles have just begun.
Some people put anti-seize on the threads, if you do make sure you don't use stuff that'll react with the different metals.......the search will probably help you figure out what to use.
New heat shields.
Don't just bend the injector lines out of the way, you gotta remove them from the IP too.
If you have everything you need right there and nothing goes wrong it shouldn't take much over an hour for a first timer.
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When removing the injector pipes, put some towels under the IP where the lines connect. Once you begin to loosen the lines, diesel fuel will leak down onto your coolant hoses. That's not a good thing.
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Thanks for the tips. I hear you on the penetrating oil.
I've heard that you only need to crack one injector line, or even none at all, due to the self-priming aspect of the ip system. Just crank it a bit, it starts up, and runs smooth after a bit of idle.
Some say locktite or thread sealant, some say none because it can make it near impossible to get them out again doen the line.
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i used my impact to remove them... whole job took like an hour
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Good tip on removing the hard lines altogether, too. I remember not doing that on a renault diesel I used to have and it was bad news. Do you recommend loosening the hard lines at the injector first or the pump first? And how about when putting them back on? Pump first or injectors first?
How much fuel should I expect to drain out when removing the hard lines at the pump? And do I need to prime the pump with atf or anything, or will there still be enough residual fuel in the pump to prime when cranking?
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I do have an impact wrench. I always thought that would be too risky as far as possible cracking or breaking of the various engine components. Less fine control of pressure, tension, force, etc vs hand tools. Am I just being paranoid?
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And as far as applying force "toward the head" when loosening or tightening, does that mean at a downward angle or towards the firewall?
Is it a good idea to always replace to soft lines, too, since you're going through the trouble to do the rest, anyway?
ps
Sorry for the multiple consecutive posts. I'm posting from my phone, and the thread isn't updating as quickly as you all or posting. Great advice so far. Man I love this site!!
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Good tip on removing the hard lines altogether, too. I remember not doing that on a renault diesel I used to have and it was bad news. Do you recommend loosening the hard lines at the injector first or the pump first? And how about when putting them back on? Pump first or injectors first?
How much fuel should I expect to drain out when removing the hard lines at the pump? And do I need to prime the pump with atf or anything, or will there still be enough residual fuel in the pump to prime when cranking?
loosen them in what ever order, when you tighten them, make them all tight by hand before using your wrench, that way they are lined up right.
not much fuel comes out, it's not really anything to be concerned with. you don't need to prime the pump or anything because the deliver valves seal it off. some people crack the injector lines at the injector side, but i don't and it still starts pretty quickly
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I do have an impact wrench. I always thought that would be too risky as far as possible cracking or breaking of the various engine components. Less fine control of pressure, tension, force, etc vs hand tools. Am I just being paranoid?
imo the impact wrench is safer because its only going to put rotational force on the injectors, its not going to be pushing it side to side or front to back at all, and it gives nice vibrations to get everything loose. someone else may feel differently than i do, thats just my theory of why its safer. i turned my impact on the lowest setting and all but one of them came out with no trouble the last one i just had to hold the impact on it for a little longer
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And as far as applying force "toward the head" when loosening or tightening, does that mean at a downward angle or towards the firewall?
Is it a good idea to always replace to soft lines, too, since you're going through the trouble to do the rest, anyway?
ps
Sorry for the multiple consecutive posts. I'm posting from my phone, and the thread isn't updating as quickly as you all or posting. Great advice so far. Man I love this site!!
if the lines look dry replace them, if they look fine, keep them.
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And as far as applying force "toward the head" when loosening or tightening, does that mean at a downward angle or towards the firewall?
Is it a good idea to always replace to soft lines, too, since you're going through the trouble to do the rest, anyway?
ps
Sorry for the multiple consecutive posts. I'm posting from my phone, and the thread isn't updating as quickly as you all or posting. Great advice so far. Man I love this site!!
Push toward the meat of the head/firewall. This is for tightening and loosening. If you break the thin part of the injector boss you end up with the worst case which is head removal and replacement. Many hours there.
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And as far as applying force "toward the head" when loosening or tightening, does that mean at a downward angle or towards the firewall?
Is it a good idea to always replace to soft lines, too, since you're going through the trouble to do the rest, anyway?
ps
Sorry for the multiple consecutive posts. I'm posting from my phone, and the thread isn't updating as quickly as you all or posting. Great advice so far. Man I love this site!!
if the lines look dry replace them, if they look fine, keep them.
Do you mean if the lines look hard? If the lines are dry...
Buy a meter of the stuff, and replace any which leak after reusing. If they don't, then don't ::).
Clever people cut them slightly on the long side, so that the ends can be trimmed once or so.
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It would help to put some strong penatrant on them like the night previous to doing this
Suggestions on 'strong' penetrate please ... USA.
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PBlaster, Kroil, Deep Creep, etc...
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1/2 brake fluid, 1/2 tranny fluid; mixed in a road-side diner style of ketchup (catsup) squirter. Attached hose (cheap clear pvc hose) as required to get it to really funky places, even from underneath (think lower exhaust manifold with the engine still in the car). Put some cat litter on the ground first, and do NOT get it on the paint. Best stuff I've ever used. Penetrated the axle nuts on a parts car that has sat for 5 years...after destroying a breaker bar and a 5' piece of cast iron pipe for leverage. My 1/2" impact took it off after two days of soaking...
Andy
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It would help to put some strong penatrant on them like the night previous to doing this
Suggestions on 'strong' penetrate please ... USA.
PBblaster is good stuff for sure.
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Good to hear, as PBlaster is what I've been using.
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Always push towards the head when loosening or tightening the injectors otherwise the injector boss could crack and then your troubles have just begun.
Some people put anti-seize on the threads, if you do make sure you don't use stuff that'll react with the different metals.......the search will probably help you figure out what to use.
New heat shields.
Don't just bend the injector lines out of the way, you gotta remove them from the IP too.
If you have everything you need right there and nothing goes wrong it shouldn't take much over an hour for a first timer.
do not use copper never sieze, it will have a reaction with the aluminum and do more damage than good. use the silver never sieze..
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Well, I took care of it today. Took about an hour as you all said. Tried going the hand tool method for removal, but the injectors wouldn't budge. Impact wrench did the trick and made it a piece of cake. Really. It couldn't have been easier or more straightforward and I barely worked up a sweat using the impact wrench method. Replaced heat shields, threaded everything by hand, torqued everything to 70nm per Bentely. Replaced the soft braided lines as they were a little brittle. Did not crack the pipes at the injector, but it started up just fine (after a couple of 10 second bouts of cranking). Adjusted max fuel and idle. Test drive turned up one leaky pipe at the injector, but a little more torque on it and all is well. Doesn't feel/sound like there is any air in the system and everything runs nice and smooth. Definitely felt more acceleration and noticed less smoke overall. Still some smoke at WOT, but that's probably because the fuel is still turned up a little bit over stock...which is fine. I barely notice it in the rear view mirror, even at WOT, so it can't be that bad. I may turn it down a bit to see if I can achieve no smoke...just for the fun of it. It's an older motor, so non-smoke may be a non-option.
So far, the most "advanced" repair I've done (for whatever that is worth). Building up confidence to do the IP (Giles) and timing belt. As yet, I have never failed to be amazed and encouraged at how doable repairs are on this little Rabbit. If I can do it, chances are anyone out there searching for advice on these forums can do it, as well.
Thanks again!
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CONGRATS ! !
Now if I only had impact wrench tools...
Never have used them before
Well, I took care of it today. Took about an hour as you all said. Tried going the hand tool method for removal, but the injectors wouldn't budge. Impact wrench did the trick and made it a piece of cake. Really. It couldn't have been easier or more straightforward and I barely worked up a sweat using the impact wrench method. Replaced heat shields, threaded everything by hand, torqued everything to 70nm per Bentely. Replaced the soft braided lines as they were a little brittle. Did not crack the pipes at the injector, but it started up just fine (after a couple of 10 second bouts of cranking). Adjusted max fuel and idle. Test drive turned up one leaky pipe at the injector, but a little more torque on it and all is well. Doesn't feel/sound like there is any air in the system and everything runs nice and smooth. Definitely felt more acceleration and noticed less smoke overall. Still some smoke at WOT, but that's probably because the fuel is still turned up a little bit over stock...which is fine. I barely notice it in the rear view mirror, even at WOT, so it can't be that bad. I may turn it down a bit to see if I can achieve no smoke...just for the fun of it. It's an older motor, so non-smoke may be a non-option.
So far, the most "advanced" repair I've done (for whatever that is worth). Building up confidence to do the IP (Giles) and timing belt. As yet, I have never failed to be amazed and encouraged at how doable repairs are on this little Rabbit. If I can do it, chances are anyone out there searching for advice on these forums can do it, as well.
Thanks again!
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Turned the fuel down about an 1/8th of a turn. VERY little smoke now. I can't even see it at all in 2-5th...I think. 1st gear still has noticeable smoke from a takeoff, but it's only of a lightish grey color. Whattaya gonna do? Not bad for a 30 year old car...gas or diesel.
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Perfect discussion to the repair I need to do this weekend. Thanks for the words of wisdom. Will borrow an Impact wrench and make it easy on myself. DAS
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Perfect discussion to the repair I need to do this weekend. Thanks for the words of wisdom. Will borrow an Impact wrench and make it easy on myself. DAS
Remember, if it's really tight; not to undo the injector in one go, but just part turn it.
If the threads are really clogged so it remains tight, then best to finish off by hand with a 'T' bar and more lube, and partial retightening, otherwise threads can become damaged