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General Information => General => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on March 31, 2010, 04:58:30 pm
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I have noticed that after having used a good guide found on the web for how to relay my headlights, that I burn out drivers low beams in rather short order. Its not so much that they burn out as in do not work.. but they get a condensation inside the bulbs. This is in a Sealed Halogen system.
I was conversing with Vince about the issue. It would appear that because of the literally 8-10" run between battery and drivers low beam instead of having to go in through the fuse box and the head light switch, the headlights are now seeing closer to the 13.5 volts the alternator is supplying the battery with, instead of the 11 volts after traveling through 18ft of wire..
I was wondering, is there a way that this could be solved? I was thinking of upgrading to Hella and their H1 H4 combo. I think this is only an issue because the sealed beams are simply getting to much power..
anyone else have any input? :D
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The more voltage to the headlights the better (to a point ;)), I have one of these http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Headlights.shtml#OnLineOrdering (http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Headlights.shtml#OnLineOrdering) , except mines a probably not as good.
If your alternator is putting out 13.5V AND all that juice is getting to the bulbs then consider yourself lucky!!
The local napa guy says bad grounds is a major cause of burned out bulbs, that might be something to check.
The whole reason for relaying the headlights is to go easy on the switch and have less voltage loss to the bulbs.
Check all the connections and see what happens. ;D
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well yeah its not that their burning out though, its that it is condensing on the inside of the sealed beam. Showing me it is getting way hotter than designed?
I understand that it is to save the switch, and draw less load through the fuse panel. However I still think too much is getting to the bulb, mainly only the drivers low beam.. as they get used quite a bit, do a fair bit of night driving. the drivers high beam hasn't shown any wear yet as i do not do much out of town night driving anymore.
If there were bad grounds would it not cause less actual voltage to through each light bulb?
I can't see a reason why the bulbs on the driver side aren't seeing close to 13.5v they are literally a 10" 12g wire from the battery terminal, and the battery shows 13.5.. I've never actually checked voltage to the bulb, so I'm not a hundo on it.. ;)
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Not sure why you're making the connection between liquid getting inside your bulb and the bulb getting too much power?
I had to replace a low beam that had condensation in it. On closer examination I had a crack in the housing where one of the leads came in.
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i just assumed that it was getting to hot (too much power) and then was condensing inside.. no?
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.... I'd say... no !!!
The filament of a bulb will get hotter at 13.5V, but I can't see that causing condensation that wasn't already going to be an issue eventually at 12V... in fact, you could argue the hotter bulb should actually burn the condensation off faster??
From your condensation perspective... I wonder if there isn't already something else going on here... small crack in the lens or sidecase, missing bulb gasket, something like that? There's no real reason for there to be moisture inside the lamp assembly normally.
In terms of the bulbs burning out faster... this is typically the experience had by folks with DRLs since the low beams are running at 100% power all the time rather than 80% during the day, 95% at night (due to cable losses ;) ) Folks without DRLs probably experience slightly shorter bulb lifespans in general, but it shouldn't be really obvious. Vibration due to poor engine mounts or worn suspension is likely at least as big a contributor to bulb life.
The other thing to keep in mind imho is that the purpose of relaying the bulbs is to increase the bulb's brilliance by minimizing voltage losses. This applies to the supply (+12V) side but also the ground side... all the heavy duty wire and relays supplying 12V are in vain if the ground is not just as robust... since the entire thing is a series circuit from battery/alternator to light back to battery/alternator.
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relaying the headlights also increases the simplicity in the system and reduces the amount of current that has to go through the headlight switch as well. instead of powering headlights through everything, it simply has to fire the relay. much easier on the wiring as well. my point is that once you relay the lights. it comes down to only a couple of things
1. getting power to the original low/high beam socket when you turn them on(aka did they work before?).
2. the relay itself
3. the wire from the battery to the light
All of these are easily checkable in minutes
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Yeah your sealed beam probably has a crack/water inside it and the hotter bulb is boiling the water up into steam..........a wild guess :P.
But yeah there's no way more voltage is making water inside it, swap the passenger side ones over to the drivers side and see what happens :-\
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The hella h4/h1 setup is definitely worth the money. It was one of the first things I did when I got the truck. Picked up a set from rallylights.com nice people.
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I'm retarded, forgive my ignorance. ;)
thank-you guys, Has anyone found a good setup for HID's on an mk1 jetta?
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I'm retarded, forgive my ignorance. ;)
Not at all... your theories were valid as well.
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just go ahead and relay your lights. i just used the factory wiring to power my relays. they are right in front of my battery. it made my lights twice as bright, people hate my low beams, and they really hate my high beams. definitely worth the effort!
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oh I have them relayed :) supa dupa bright.
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just remember to carry a spare relay and a piece of jumper wire with you now, for if a relay ever burns out.
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just remember to carry a spare relay and a piece of jumper wire with you now, for if a relay ever burns out.
Fer shizzle KEvo. I carry tools to do every job on the car. Even the triple square cv thinger lol
How about HID's boys? any one got any recommendations?
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Jer,
Check out Daniel Stern Lighting. Make sure you get a good reputable name, not a second or a cheap knockoff. You can score the real deal off of ebay europe. Not cheap, but the real deal and the right lights for the job.
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How about HID's boys? any one got any recommendations?
No. Not unless you are going to do them properly, with a full optics conversion and all the leveling modifications.
Otherwise you're just selfishly blinding people.
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How about HID's boys? any one got any recommendations?
No. Not unless you are going to do them properly, with a full optics conversion and all the leveling modifications.
Otherwise you're just selfishly blinding people.
i wouldnt put hid bulbs in anything besides an hid reflector. hid bulbs make light the wrong way for our headlight reflectors to aim or focus the light the right way. most of our headlight setups are 9004, and i know they make HID conversions for them, but why get hid's if you cant make use of all the light?
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I have read my fair share about the HID conversions. I understand that the Neon (?) gas that burns in the HID bulbs burns in the entire bulb, similar to a fluorescent bulb. The light is now shining in basically 360 degrees instead the old filament type bulbs with light only coming from one small 1/4" strand of tungsten that is producing light in just a small area. The light produced by the HID in a Halogen projector sends light rays through parts of the projector that are not intended.
I have seen many idiots with just stupidly bright headlights, that don't really look like they shine any further than my sealed beams..
I was asking if anyone has seen or come across a proper setup for the Mk1 Jettas 4X6 headlight with all the goodies for the conversion. Probably not a route I will go, as it is likely expensive as a pair of fake knockers or something ;)
Even the H1/H4 conversion looks stupid priced.. just the bulb holders are like crazy priced.. How can that be? they don't even have the bulbs in them! lol
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The gas doesn't burn. It does something similar to what happens in a fluorescent bulb, where you jolt electricity through it and it gets excited and throws off light.
HIDs actually produce their brightest light at two points; the "filament" is actually an arc leaping from one electrode to another, exciting the gas as it passes through it. The most light is released at the two "points" of the arc, one on each end where it leaps to or from an electrode.
In a sealed beam or standard halogen bulb, you're producing light by heating a tungsten filament until it's white-hot; it's incandescing, not fluorescing. The halogen gas in the bulb is there to keep the filament from oxidizing, and to allow the element to maintain a temperature equilibrium to produce the desired light colour.
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The kits are about $100 here
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=744 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=744)
I didn't think twice but I really find good lighting to be important on my vehicles.
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The kits are about $100 here
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=744 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=744)
I didn't think twice but I really find good lighting to be important on my vehicles.
this isnt HID lighting, this is just a set of good ol h4 conversion housings. they are the really good ones tho. not the 20 dollar plastic ebay ones. the hella H4 lights are pretty much the best quality H4 conv i have seen. my friends use them in their wheelers alot. i personally have never used them, but they are obnoxiously bright.
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for that kit then would i need to order two sets?
Hella
H6054 200mm Rectangular E-code Hi-Lo Conversion Headlamp Kit.
• Replaces 6052, 6053, H6052 and H6054 Sealed Beams.
• Includes two lamps, two dust boots and two bulbs.
• If your car has sealed beams, this is the most effective, simplest and least expensive improvement in forward lighting you can make.
• Optical Quartz Lens
• Silverized Polished Aluminum Reflector
• Replaceable H4 Bulb
• Four times as much light on Low Beam, Twice as much on High Beam.
$101.20
then i was thinking H6054L 80/70W Hella Yellowstars? If i did this I could run just two headlights eh? OR maybe even keep one of the Sylvania Silverstars in the driver side high beam... and use the passenger side hole as a duct for intake breather.. OOoohh
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for that kit then would i need to order two sets?
Hella
H6054 200mm Rectangular E-code Hi-Lo Conversion Headlamp Kit.
• Replaces 6052, 6053, H6052 and H6054 Sealed Beams.
• Includes two lamps, two dust boots and two bulbs.
• If your car has sealed beams, this is the most effective, simplest and least expensive improvement in forward lighting you can make.
• Optical Quartz Lens
• Silverized Polished Aluminum Reflector
• Replaceable H4 Bulb
• Four times as much light on Low Beam, Twice as much on High Beam.
$101.20
then i was thinking H6054L 80/70W Hella Yellowstars? If i did this I could run just two headlights eh? OR maybe even keep one of the Sylvania Silverstars in the driver side high beam... and use the passenger side hole as a duct for intake breather.. OOoohh
3 headlights would look dumb. you have a mk1, just make a rain tray intake.
and i think the VW cars with more than 2 rectangle head lights had the smaller lights, so they could fit 2 there instead of 1. my audi has 4 headlights, and they are not even close to the same as the singles in my rabbit, they are way smaller.
pretty sure they make the lights that will fit in your dual rect grille tho..
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Just make sure you aim them again once you've reset them. Just popping H4 lights where sealed beams once sat tends to throw light upward more, into folks' faces.
Not to mention you'll put more light on the road where it should be, further improving your visual range, once they're aimed right. I can't tell you how many times people have complained about "bad lighting" and they've never aimed their headlights...
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Oh yeah, the set I posted are for mk1 westy rabbits, caddies etc. I didn't think about the jetta or rocco having four lights. The guys at susquehanna motorsports (rallylights.com) are really nice guys and I'm sure can sort you out a nice quad-light setup.
As far as the hids I thought there was a bit of consensus about not going with hid and I personally don't like the look and the output isn't really better than a good h4/h1 setup it's just blue.
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As far as the hids I thought there was a bit of consensus about not going with hid and I personally don't like the look and the output isn't really better than a good h4/h1 setup it's just blue.
If you have ever had true HID lights versus halogens, there is a huge difference. The difference in output is great enough that if you don't have a properly designed and aimed system, it becomes dangerous for people driving in the direction opposite to yours. A HID system has to have a ballast and the bulb. The ballast may be internal if you were buying a selfcontained unit, but if there is no ballast do not have a HID setup.
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As far as the hids I thought there was a bit of consensus about not going with hid and I personally don't like the look and the output isn't really better than a good h4/h1 setup it's just blue.
If you have ever had true HID lights versus halogens, there is a huge difference. The difference in output is great enough that if you don't have a properly designed and aimed system, it becomes dangerous for people driving in the direction opposite to yours. A HID system has to have a ballast and the bulb. The ballast may be internal if you were buying a selfcontained unit, but if there is no ballast do not have a HID setup.
Any suggestions for setting hids up on a mk1 jetta?
I pretty much get my lighting info from http://danielsternlighting.com/ (http://danielsternlighting.com/) and personal experience and don't believe that hids are better than properly setup traditional headlamps. The difference to which you refer is mostly color and cutoff. The cutoff with hids is good but what good does that do you? The color is all wrong.
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I have no experience with on-road HID. We use off-road HID and I can tell you the difference is huge. I don't have numbers but when I was testing driving our trucks at night I would always install HIDs instead of halogens, no matter which option the customer requested. I would say about 50% greater visibility minimum. Most of the comments I have seen about colour are referring to fake HID bulbs.
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a REAL hid bulb takes a balast does it not? there are some HID bulbs with balasts that have some funky colored light too. those purple headlights bug me...
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Over 120 days I know...
On an H4 Bulb the only thing I can find for how to wire it is this.
(http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Images/H4_Pinout.jpg)
I am no electrician but assume common to be ground right?
I also assume that all H4 bulbs would have the same wiring so they would be interchangable between cars, right?
Let me know please. I am going to upgrade as soon as I figure my core support out.
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I also assume that all H4 bulbs would have the same wiring so they would be interchangable between cars, right?
Yup.
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hey this is good that you have bumped this thread Lucas! I am still in search for good lighting on my project Jetta! I dunno if I wanna go HID's or just a H1/H4 combo..
Yep, Low, High and Common (Earth/Ground). Seems that diagram was written by someone who frequents with house electrical systems. As I think they call there un-grounded (2 wires black and white) wires live and common.
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http://store.everythingcarparts.com/Toyota-Parts/Land-Cruiser/Headlights/88-90-Toyota-Land-Cruiser-4x6-Projector-Headlights-HID-p8300447.html
in my travels i found this, Now I have no idea what an HID bulb looks like, but I do believe they show one in there picture scroll. Also in one of there pictures it looks as though you can see a typical halogen bulb in one of the housings.. It claims to come with xenon ballasts.. Not saying I am going to buy it, just wanted opinions.
Would this be a projector housing as opposed to an HID housing? because it looks like there using plain 'ol H4 bulbs to me.. How are the light output of these type setups?
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DUDE those said 10000K...probably too bright for daily driving. That would be more for your off road, spotlight, and kill deer at night ride. I thought I was nuts going with something around 6000K. I just wanted pretty blue. I think stock lighting is under 2,000K.
I bought these and I think you would have plenty of light with them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Luminics-Pure-Blue-H4-light-bulbs-headlight-bulbs-/300268060341?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45e95efeb5
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Actually Lucas the ----K reference is to the colour temperature of the light, not the brightness of its output. These are still only a 35w bulb.
Natural sunlight is something like 4500-5000K. The higher the Colour Temperature the whiter the light.
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Yeah but it is brighter. ;D
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Well really its "whiter" lol ;)
Now that 10000k kit i posted.. obviously they look like there is H4 bulbs inside them..
(http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/2/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/8300447)
If so why do they include ballasts?
(http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/2/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/8300447/extra/4)
and what are these?? The actual HID bulb? I have no idea lol
(http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/2/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/8300447/extra/3)
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Those were the HID bulbs, the H-style bulbs are probably for the high-beams, most HID kits use a standard bulb for highs and a HID for low.
I was going to post my usual "Dont use HID kits with standard headlamp housings" rant, but that kit you posted looks like it has proper projectors for the HID's so it should work fine.
Brendan
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I haven't seen HID in person but that isn't what my H4 looks like.
(http://bmw325racing.50megs.com/LB_H4.jpg)
that is my H4 and they aren't really sealed or have pigtails, just a bulb. I would bet that it is HID especially with the ballasts and projectors there.
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Actually Lucas the ----K reference is to the colour temperature of the light, not the brightness of its output. These are still only a 35w bulb.
Natural sunlight is something like 4500-5000K. The higher the Colour Temperature the whiter the light.
Oh, mine are a 55w bulb ;)
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a fun fact I found,
The color temperature is more than 5000K compared to 2300K for halogen. The light output from a 35W HID Xenon lamp is 300% more light than a 55W halogen bulb. The HID Xenon system will also consume much less power from your vehicles electrical system and generate much less heat during operation.
300% more light! whoooa
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HID's require a ballast. No ballast - they are not HID's. I know off-road HID systems have come way down in price in the last 4-5 years. (The ones we use have dropped from $450+ per light to $120 range.) I would assume street legal versions will be more reasonable as well. A few years back any system as cheap as 8V's link would have been fake, but no longer I guess.
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OK so the kit i posted. Obviously There pictures do not show the HID bulb installed and consensus says that's probably a high beam light shown.. But what does it look like with the HID bulb in? also do the H4 halogen bulb and HID bulb fit in the same socket? OR Do the HID bulbs insert in to a halogen looking glass case? I will need to get in contact with the seller of the above set, as I am unsure on many things.
There is a ton of grey-matter on the whole HID conversion.. SO MANY people claim to have "HID stuff" when clearly there picture is of a halogen bulb and no ballast in site..
I like the set I posted above as they are very clean looking, and will add a good level of "There is something about that POS car that is intensifying" as I'll be rockin' primer spots, non tinted windows, stock ride height, bulbous tires, and red shag seat covers from the 80's ;) HOWEVER, there will be a TDI under the hood :P
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If you are buying HID's I recommend getting the color temp of 4100K. Visually, this temp is the cleanest,whitest bulb available. In my opinion gives you the furthest view down the road. Color temps above the number will appear blue and as the color temp rises higher, it will turn violet (@ 10,000K).
This still applies to halogen bulbs also. The problem is that the bulb manufactures coat the outside of the bulbs to get the color temps talked about earlier. I bought a set of 5000K bulbs, installed them, and was disappointed at the output. Taking fine steel wool, I took off the coating on one bulb, reinstalled it, and WOW, twice as bright as the 5000K (blue tinted) bulb. There are a few making true 4100K bulbs (PIAA), but they are a little pricey.
Right now I'm trying a set of HID's that drop into the square H-4 housings. The light output (4100K) is outstanding. But the bulb doesn't match the reflector very well, so the cutoff isn't very accurate. So I guess you get what you pay for...........
Cheers,
-JB
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Right now I'm trying a set of HID's that drop into the square H-4 housings. The light output (4100K) is outstanding. But the bulb doesn't match the reflector very well, so the cutoff isn't very accurate. So I guess you get what you pay for...........
Hopefully someone else doesn't get what you pay for, too. Put those things in projectors, not reflectors.
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Yeah man HID bulbs in normal halogen housings is not only ignorant, its just an all around stupid thing to do.
Here is the route I was going to take, was because other things have come in to the foreground.. and frankly $200+ for two of the four headlights alone.. :( HOWEVER! that does not keep me from dreaming and wanting to teach others about the awesomeness of proper HID retro's!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5065880-Today-s-project-bixenon-7-quot-rounds
This is a great thread of a guy who made his own HID lights with products from a very highly regarded supplier of individual projector lenses, bulbs, and ballasts; The Retrofit Source.
http://www.theretrofitsource.com/index.php?cPath=27
8v :)
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This guy is selling 7" round true bi-xenon headlamps for MB G-Wagens, $430 shipped for a set. The bi-xenon denotes a system that uses only one real HID bulb, and shifts the reflector slightly when switched to hi-beam... no halogen bulbs involved. Nice for early cars and Cabriolets. I'm going to pick up a set of these if I can confirm they will fit into the Vanagon headlight pit, there's not as much room to play with on the vans.
I'm pretty sure the little bulb on the bottom is the city/parking light.
EBAY LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-06-MERCEDES-W463-G500-Bi-Xenon-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHTS-/170554633524?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AG55+AMG&hash=item27b5d92d34)
(http://www.speedstersource.com/FISH/HL_MBZ_W463_DP_CHR_PLUS_HID_B.jpg)
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I contacted the seller, he said the G-Wagen lights are 8" deep. :P I think that's going to rule them out for most VWs.
I just ordered the Ebay cheapo headlight set... I'm going to replicate the build on the Vortex, using the Morimoto D2S projectors, TRS have a complete setup for $300. (and look at the LED light kit, if you spend $300, you get it for free :D) I'll post it up when I start the build.
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The guy on the vortex used the Morimoto H1's for there projector depth, and only had an inch between plug and stock battery location. I do believe the D2S' are a bit deeper, however I am not %100.
Either way, one day I would love to do this setup! But for now i think I wanna find some Euro-spec mk1 jetta headlights ;)
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Yeah, changing it to H1... they are actually slightly deeper, but smaller in all other aspects. What changed my mind is the mount; the H1 has a screw-on adapter for H-4 style bulb mounts...