1.6TD Rebuild, or TDI-M Swap?

[92A2VWJTD]

I've been frequenting this fantastic site for some time. It has brought me from being a total diesel imbecile to a respectable "My TD is tuned quite nicely now" level of knowledge. The only rub at this point is that I need to address a few issues that will see me pulling my engine in order to save some major headaches. The pump needs rebuilding, the turbo needs a rebuild (upgrade??), my HG leaks (I unfortunately suspect warpage, but hope not), my clutch is toast, all the hoses and belts and rubber bits need replacing, my inop A/C needs yanking and an FMIC will find a home somewhere in there, and barring any other things I've forgotten she needs a cleanup and re-paint. All well worth the effort. I've been reading up on the merits of IDI vs TDI, and believe that I want to stick with my MF. But, suppose I need to buy a new head (yikes!), maybe I should consider a TDI-M swap? I dunno. It'd prolly cost about the same in the end seeing as how I'm pulling it anyways and doing so much work to it. Anyone wanna make a case for either scenario, please do. I really can't decide which would be a better option.

As for specs and what I'm aiming for with the rebuild/swap:
I now run 15psi + applicable fueling. I am happy with it, but will soon not rely on my Jetta as a daily driver, and so want more power (my aim is about 140-160hp). I understand hill'folker runs a TDI-M REALLY hard, and seems happy with it. Care to comment? Can I reasonably expect 160hp from a 1.6TD, or is that strictly TDI territory? I know 200hp is fairly easy with a chipped, massaged TDI (I realize the 'M' don't do chips). I guess what I really want here is for someone to either convince me to stay away from the TDI camp, or convince me to join the TDI camp. Chime in if you feel like adding some knowledge to my quest.
Cheers

[burn_your_money]

take a TDI for a test drive. They are different beasts

[jtanguay]

either way, an m-TDI pump will run you about $900.  Giles charges $950 for a super pump and full rebuild of the 1.6TD pump.  You'll have to remember that TDI parts are quite expensive as well.. such as the injectors which i believe are around $300 a piece??? maybe more???  when you consider the fact that 1.6TD injectors are about $60 a piece (with a core) thats a heck of a lot cheaper.  Even most people just opt for new nozzles and be done with it!  even cheaper!  :lol:

i'd say it all depends on how fat your wallet is.  definitely go with total seal rings either way.  andy2 and hillfolk'r have them and both love them!!! no blowby!  :wink:

[92A2VWJTD]

Well, suppose I just stick with the 1.6TD. What would a new head cost if mine is warped? Is there an upgrade to be had? Better flowing intake manifolds? I really hope I'm being paranoid about that, though. And as far as turbo rebuilds, is there an upgrade that works well for the 1.6TD (no VNT's thanks)? Maybe a GT25R? Without question, I will have Giles rebuild me a super pump. Is an 11mm conversion a good idea for the hp I'm looking for? As far as cost is concerned, I decided a while ago that rebuilding my Jetta from the ground up will be cheaper and more satisfying than buying a newer Mk4, not to mention all the experience gained getting into the process. TDI parts ARE more expensive, aren't they? True enough.

I will do my best to document the process when I get into it. It won't be for a bit yet, as I'm moving out of the country for a while. When I get back, it's on. I expect I'll have lots of questions along the way...
Cheers

[RabbitJockey]

i have a hookup that can do tdi-m pumps for 5-600 plus shipping

[jtanguay]

i just bought a TDI 1Z block (its a drop in for MK2 & 3's... and i think MK1's???)

cost me $1200.  engine has around 130'000km. imported from GERMANY where they use better oil, and cleaner diesel!  

i'm still tearing it down though... to clean out the crap left by the stupid EGR system!

tack on another 700 or so like trev0rbr said for the mech pump, and away you go.  super economy and really beautiful torque! oh yea the long block i got had no turbo... but i do have a nice T3 sitting around that would do it well

[scopefrfd]

I have had both...and a 1.6td can be made to be quite the beast...but you'll have to rev it to make serious power.  The M-tdi is all about torque..I love it.   It seems I'm always short shifting the tdi to feel the torque.  I was watching the 12hrs of Sebring and it looked like the Audi R10's were shifting at around 3K rpms.    Granted it was late in the race and the R10 had a 5 lap lead..but it still shows the torque the tdi's make.

The thing that nobody seems talk about is the total  package...the tdi's start much easier in cold weather...I could go out to my tdi when it's in the 30's F, get in and it'll start right up without even giving the glow plugs a chance.  Try that in a IDI and you'll get nothing.

This year in the Norhteast we had a little stretch of really cold weather "thanks canada, I don't know how you guys do it" and the tdi always started right up and my M-tdi pump does not have a cold start advance..I just give it a little extra throttle and it fires right up in 5-10 F degree weather.  Once I saw how well the engine performed in cold weather I was hooked, no comparison.