-
#15
by
Tintin
on 04 Mar, 2007 17:13
-
Non, on this side of the pond there exist no specifique DI pump, only a 1.5/1.6 D-TD, 1.9TD and cummins pump.
To find a better pump specific DI or a IDI with interesting part, I look in Europe or Germany on Ebay.
Or to look with a reference number on a DI pump to order at Bosch of the levers, except that the Bosch parts it's very expensive, to much money for me.
The majority of the parts which I have in stock come from pump which I bought on ebay, some pieces at Bosch, and some other I modify them myself.
If somebody has the possibility of having access to a welder, die grinder (dremel) cutter wheel, press drill, etc......with skill it is easy to modify certain parts :wink:
-
#16
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 04 Mar, 2007 17:24
-
yes, def. understand the price in parts from Bosch. We priced them out from bosch directly...and it was over 150.00 just for the lever/spring assembly...
So if you don't mind my asking then. What are you running then for a control lever and and the throttle shaft/gov. assembly? Something different, or similar to what I am?
Joe
-
#17
by
Tintin
on 04 Mar, 2007 17:40
-
I use similar control shaft so that I showed, and I use modified AAZ speed control.
When I succeeded in finding some in DI pumps which I buy, I use those, but generally they similar those of cummins.
-
#18
by
aidan
on 05 Mar, 2007 14:54
-
Named Tintin,
What do you think of the following for a tdi mechanical pump;
0460 424 147
R713 - 1
908 18509093
7221 - 16 - 1
From a Renault Master van 2.8
-
#19
by
Tintin
on 05 Mar, 2007 16:07
-
Renault Master 2.8TDI 115HP@3600 RPM 0 460 424 147 :lol: it's a jack pot!! VE4/12F1800R713
These pump need only a minor governor mod to up the RPM at 2000 (4000 engine RPM) and ''voila'' :wink:
The pré inj. pressure is set around 240B on this engine, propbably 350 and up for the main inj.
The timing is set at 1.10mm, for a TDI (220B inj.) set at 0.90-1.00mm for the fisrt tests.
It remains to look for the good alignment of the timing belt pulley, it's not a big problem.
-
#20
by
aidan
on 05 Mar, 2007 16:14
-
-
#21
by
DA-BRT
on 06 Mar, 2007 05:15
-
@Named Tintin (and others):
I'm currently building a M-TDI for a customer. It's a low budget project. He gave me a Renault Master 11mm pump (short nose 20mm axle) and a AAZ pump. (long nose 17mm axle)
The AAZ pump I converted to a 20mm axle. Took a TDI pump main axle and adapted the gear for mechanical use.
The 11mm Renault Master pump has got the same style governor assembly as the one in the picture above.
Because I didn't wanted to use the uncaged spring and wanted to use a Caged VW style governor I took a AAZ style controlshaft and governor.
In your post I saw the difference between travel of the 1.6/1.9 IDI versus the Cummins one.
I did used for the race M-TDI a Cummins 4BT pump and placed the 14mm plunger. But that Cummins pump had already a caged governor assembly. I only changed is to my specs. By testing and modifying it with more pre tension on the springs.
In the picture above you can see the different travel of the controlshaft levers. What I would like to know is how big the distance is between centre axle of the controlshaft and the centre of the cage rotation axle. (I hope I described it good)
I’m thinking of changing the Renault Master controlshaft to adapt the caged governor assembly.
If that doesn’t works I’m going to change the lever that has been pressed on the controlshaft. So that there is enough travel. That’s why I’m interested in the dimension between the two rotation points.
The Master pump is using also the LDA control lever on the other side than the VW IDI pumps. I took out the two pins from the pump cover and swapped it with one from VW. (works fine)
The final pump
The Rabbit.
Tonight I’m going to continue working on the pump.
PS: Little side mark for those who want to use a AAZ pump on a TDI. If you raise the internal pump pressure. The advanced timing mechanism cover in the rear (leaver for coldstart) won’t last. I had several times the problem that the C-clamp came off and after that the leaver takes off O-ring gets out and than the pump is leaking extremely! Now I adapted a closed cover . And the issue is solved.
-
#22
by
Tintin
on 06 Mar, 2007 08:58
-
-
#23
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 06 Mar, 2007 09:53
-
the adjustable sprocket is SLICK for timing adjustments! I love it! I know someone making the sprockets to fit the cummins style pumps though (non adjustable...basically, an IDI IP pump sprocket machined w/ keyway to fit the cummins app correctly).
Joe
-
#24
by
Tintin
on 06 Mar, 2007 10:00
-
DA-BRT :shock: :lol: :lol: man....... you modified a AAZ pump to put in an 20mm drive shaft, and modified the 20mm TDI shaft to put the little ring gear gouvernor on it .... cheer :wink: I already modified parts of pump, I already thought, but I board never dared to make this modification, which means you used?
For the centre axle of the controlshaft and the centre of the cage rotation axle, around 13mm, 14-15mm it is still better, that leaves a room for extra adjustment (extra black smoke) :lol:
The AAZ advanced timing (cold start) is not support the extra pump pressure, I had problem of leaking with this device too, in this area, with heavy duty DI pump, the hydraulic condition creates pressure peaks up to 60Bar, these pressure peaks are the result of roller carrier counter torque (vibrations) acting on the timing piston, probably for this reason which it is not employed on none DI other pump, it is replaced by other models, I had already talk about it in another post, and describe different model.
-
#25
by
DA-BRT
on 07 Mar, 2007 05:23
-
I don't know if I discribe all the part names correctly but I'll try:
I took a pumpbody from an 1900TD (AAZ)
Main axle from an 1900TDI (AGR)
Changed the pumpbody so it would adapt new 20mm bearings. Problem I had when I milled the pump is that the hole in the nose for presurising the seal came awfully close to the bearing hole. You can see it a littlebit in the picture (aaz pumpbody with old aaz main axle) I posted before. (left lower corner)
Than I took the internals from the Renault Masterpump (11mm, with symmetrical 3mm lift camplate) further on. Except for de camplate that I took from the TDI. The pressure valves, internal pumppressure valve and the "out" banjo bolt from the TDI.
Actual the pump has got the control lever and the trottleshaft with caged governor from an AAZ.
The pumphead came of an AAZ modified to adapt the very agressive Renault master LDA.
Last night I took the pump appart again and the differences in de Control lever and trottleshaft between the Renault Master one and the one from the 1900TD AAZ are very big.
Next thing I'm going to do is measure the spring tension from the Master governor. After that I'm going to trie to fit the governor with cage from the AAZ.
I will make some pictures of the differences in the parts. There are more pictures on my homepage:
www.Zwalve.eu
-
#26
by
DA-BRT
on 07 Mar, 2007 05:29
-
@Named Tintin: Pump pressures peaks up to 60Bar.... :shock: :shock:
I got a hydrolic pressure meter for testing my IP pump pressure. I only need to build a hose that can handle this pressure.
I thought the IP pressure was around 8-10 bar..
-
#27
by
Tintin
on 07 Mar, 2007 09:10
-
@Named Tintin: Pump pressures peaks up to 60Bar.... :shock: :shock:
I got a hydrolic pressure meter for testing my IP pump pressure. I only need to build a hose that can handle this pressure.
I thought the IP pressure was around 8-10 bar..
:roll: no, not the internal pressure, :lol: I speak about the ''PEAK'' pressure between behind timing piston and the VW cold start or rear timing plate cover, ''.....these pressure peaks are the result of roller carrier counter torque (vibrations) acting on the timing piston.....''
-
#28
by
DA-BRT
on 08 Mar, 2007 03:45
-
Ah ok, I was shocked about this value.
The value seams logic in there
-
#29
by
DA-BRT
on 08 Mar, 2007 03:49
-
Yesterday I took the injection pump apart.
You can click on the images for a bigger version!
I measured the distance between the fixing hole (red on 2nd image) and rotation center (yellow on 2nd image) of the Renault Master Control lever and the one from the 1900TD (AAZ)
The left is the one from the 1900TD (AAZ) and the right one from the Master
What surprised me is that dimension between the centre of the two holes on the 1900TD (AAZ) lever was 12mm and on the Master lever it was 10mm. I really thought that the Master lever would have bigger offset. So it can make a bigger movement on the plunger.
The difference between a standard TDI (10mm) plunger and the one from the Master (11mm)
Oeps when I was ready with the pump I realized that I forgot to take pictures from the govenor assembly.
Have a look at the banjo from the 1900TD (for the advanced timing mechanism) I closed it because I took of the 1900TD advanced timing setup. (Because of failure due to the higher pump pressure)
Normal advanced timing cover instead of the 1900TD one.
My tool for the M8 with triangular head
The Bosch pump number from the Renault Master pump is 0 460 414 008.
