Samurai with a 1.6l tuning issues (hey Giles!)

[DVST8R]

Pulled a known good T3 turbo off of a friends 1.6 (he's out of town on travel  :twisted: .  Removed intercooler and went back to stock elbow...

25 lbs boost at 4500, doesn't start building boost till about 3k.  1200 degrees at 3000 rpm in 4th with 7 lbs constant boost.

Took my intercooler to a buddies house today and had him re-tig all of the joints that could possibly be leeking (if at all), just to be sure.   Reinstalled.

25 lbs boost at 4500, doesn't start building boost till about 3k.  1200 degrees at 3500 rpm in 4th with 12 lbs constant boost.

Looks like the intercooler is doing it's job, 3500 in 4th was impossible without it.

The motor runs great.  Very little smoke, light haze under full load.  No exhaust leaks.  No charge side leaks.  Boost gauge working correctly.

I tried this on my turbo, not my buddies: I took off the WG inspection plate and welded a nut just deep enough to block the opening of the WG valve.  This did not change the symptoms.

I know that my valve lash is on the loose side of the acceptable range but it should'nt affect things this much.  I will be tightening up this next weekend.

This is getting rather depressing.  I'm looking for a VNT-15 with manifold now, I just can't find any other problem with this setup other than having the wrong turbo.  Not a bad turbo, the wrong turbo.  I have done the sizing calculations for my motor and compared them to a compressor map for a T3-40 which I think is a bit bigger than the one on 1.6's.  3000 at 15lbs is just left of the surge line and 3500 is just right of it.  I gotta tell ya this thing drives just like the plot looks.  Does anyone have the correct map for our T3?  

This isn't a pride thing for me, I'm perfectly willing to screem at the top of the mountain that I'm an idiot because I forgot something or didn't set something up right.  I just want my baby to run right.  Does anyone know of a mechanic in the Phoenix area willing to tackle a modified 1.6 like mine?

The only few things I can think of are:

-Hot side leak, either at the turbo flange or at the head
-Not enough timing
-maybe the heavy flywheel is creating a slow loading situation. You would almost think that having a heavy flywheel would cause earlier spooling as there is more load and more heat, but it seems to be the opposite, hence the high egt's and slow spooling.

(aside)
Here is my theory on this, the heavyflywheel and heavier vehical are causing a slow reving motor. This is why you have a slow spooling turbo as you have enough heat from the giles pump causing high egt's but are not getting the rev's out of the motor which means low air flow in and out, and if there isn't enough air going out the turbo is not spooling. I think that more timing could help solve this.

i have seen this same thing in the pulling world were you get a heavy truck with a big turbo, and it takes forever to light and the egt's go through the roof, but when it does light HOLD ON!
(/aside)

I think the two things to try are add timing and/or try a k14 or any of the chargers from the 1.9TD

Giles is the master of the pump, but I wonder when he built this pump if he understood what the application was. As I think with a vehical like this you need a ton more timing then in a normal vw. The for the reasons I outlined above, rember with more timing you will get more cylinder pressure which is what drives the pistons and gets the rev's happening, as well as it drops the egt's and mid to high rpm smoke.

So to end this my recomendation is play with the timing, bump it up a bit at a time and see if it helps. This in combonation with adjusting your valves may be enough to satisfy you, if not try the smaller charger off a 1.9TD. I don't think you need to go as drastic as a VNT... Yet.

[deepmud]

All this time I have been focusing on the exhaust. What's the intake look like? Suzuki filter?

I had a mondo huge one from a Powerstroke. VERY low restriction. But bulky.

You could try it with no filter or just a screen for a short run. You motor is just working so hard, I don't get it.

Seems like there were lots of VNT15's on Ebay a few months ago. Now, not so much.

hmm - one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Turbo-Charger-turbocharger-TDI-Diesel-1-9-Jetta-Golf_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ013QQitemZ230092906106QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[bvanetten]

Yep, running a BIG cone filter, 3 1/2 inch inlet.  I've also tried running without it.  I have that VNT on my watch list.  TDI club has some also I think.

With a hot side leak there would be evidence of soot around the leak right?  No leaks.

Timing is set to stock currently.  Giles recomended stock because he advances things internally, I will bump it a bit this weekend.  There arn't many "marbles" on the top of my motor so this is worth a try.

DVST8R, you know the feeling when you power brake a Dodge with a DTT tranny and load up the turbo (my 72 suburban has a 5.9 with a DTT    ).  You can only build so much boost and then it holds that level and the egts start to rise quickly.  When you let off the brake the truck launches, the boost spikes, and your egt's back off a bit.
That's the feeling I get when driving.  4th gear at 3000 rpm feels like I'm power braking the turbo and 4000 rpm feels like I just let off of the brake so to speak.  What do the tractor pull guys do in the situation you discribed?

Libby, pump is off an 84 jetta, manual advance.  It is not advanced.  How many degrees or mm does pulling that lever give you?  I'll try pulling it at speeed and see what happens.

I don't know the braking pressure of the injectors but they were rebuilt by Giles when he did the pump.

So, this weekend or this week if I get time I plan on advancing timing and recording results.

Anyone have a K14 or 1.9 turbo they are willing to part with?

[DVST8R]

DVST8R, you know the feeling when you power brake a Dodge with a DTT tranny and load up the turbo (my 72 suburban has a 5.9 with a DTT    ).  You can only build so much boost and then it holds that level and the egts start to rise quickly.  When you let off the brake the truck launches, the boost spikes, and your egt's back off a bit.
That's the feeling I get when driving.  4th gear at 3000 rpm feels like I'm power braking the turbo and 4000 rpm feels like I just let off of the brake so to speak.  What do the tractor pull guys do in the situation you discribed?

Yup I know the feeling where you reach the max stall point of the convertor, and it won't build anymore boost, and then wham you let off the brakes and you are able to get the rev's and therefore the exhaust airflow to the turbo.

Tractor pullers just live with the slow spool up, they dump a ton of fuel in and  a ton of timing and then just start pulling. You dont want a real agressive launch when pulling as that would just induce a spin. So the spool up isn't a real issue. They just kinda hammer down and the turbo will light and away you go. I have seen daliy driven pulling trucks hit 2000F on a pull. After the pull they keep the rev's up and blip the throttle.

[bvanetten]

Libby, pm'ed ya.