Who's running their older Diesels on BioDiesel or SVO?

[dieselpower]

thanks,
im not too sure if i do or not. i'll go check it out tommorow and see what i can find.

Mark

[srivett]

Sudbury is going to be opening a biodiesel plant near the dump at some point so I hope to be running biodiesel this summer.  I won't be running it during the winter because I don't want to pay a premium for 1% biodiesel when it's -40C.  I just did a search on the stuff and it appears to be readily available to anybody in Ontario that runs a fleet.

Cheers, Steve

[VW Scully]

I made some of my own BioDiesel a couple of weeks ago



I'm going to try some test batches next weekend with my new supply of WVO.

[Dr. Diesel]

i'm running on WJF
waste jet fuel  

[VW Scully]

It was virgin Canola oil. The one in the big jug (on the left) is my first batch and it didn't turn out as well since the lye/methanol didn't blend very well; so I have some unreacted lye flakes in there. However, I was quite happy with the way the 2nd batch turned out (in the smaller jar) and it looks very clear now (a bit hard to see in the pic since there is a label on the jar).
Anyway, I am going to start making test batches with WVO next week; although I need to replace my blender; my jar broke when I was washing it .

btw, can I use the fuel in my car now or should I wash/filter it first? I was under the impression that I can use it w/o washing or filtering if it's virgin oil.
Thanks!

[addautomotive]

Note that SVO/WVO is only doable in moderate to warm climates. If you have to deal with sub -10C temperatures : forget it, your tank will turn to jelly and no amount of preheating in the engine bay will help. The best you can do in such climates is a VO/diesel mixture, WITH preheating and perhaps still starting on straight diesel.

I am well aware of the limitations of SVO in the cold  That is why I was questioning using it since I'm in Canada and it gets pretty darn chilly here!

I'm concerned that these comments could scare people away from using WVO in colder climates.

Just to clarify, the climate issues can be (and have been) overcome with a well sorted system. Heated tank, electric WVO heater pre-IP, lots of insulation. I know many people who run WVO year round in our chilly canadian climate with no issues whatsoever... myself included. As long as I properly purge the vegoil before turning the car off (5 km or so), it'll fire up the next day in -25 without hesitation. 3 km... not a chance :wink:


I've also heard that biodiesel will gel in the cold as well... so I'm not sure that it's safe to assume that biodiesel requires no modifications to the fuel system.

I think it's safe to say that WVO systems need to be properly set up to work in a cold climate, otherwise failure may result. However, I think proper biodiesel production also depends on careful, researched methods as well.

One thing I have noticed is that it's a lot easier to set up a "half-a$$ed" WVO system than it is to set up ANY TYPE of biodiesel system... therefore there are quite a few dubious WVO conversions out there. These undermine the credibility of WVO conversions.

[MacGyver]

hey,
where do you guys get your lye and methanol from. i cant find places that sell it aound here(i havent really looked that hard tho)
thanks for all the info so far


Mark

Since you're in Medicine Hat, check out 'Peavey Mart' @ 64 Carry Drive SE, they should have the methanol in 4L, and may have the lye (drain cleaner). They're a farm supply store like our TSC stores here.
If no luck, try any other hardware store.

Ok, I used to travel entirely too much... :wink:

VW Scully, looking fwd to talking to you tomorrow night about all things biodiesel, C U @ Molly Bloom's!

[dieselpower]

thank you very much,
I think i'll have to wait till spring or summer considering it's -46*C here today with the windchill.
I also have one more stupid question :oops:   How are you heating up the oil to make the biodiesel when you are using such small containers and making such small batches?
Thanks alot

Mark

[srivett]

AddAutomotive:
  I am trying to track down a guy working for Sudbury Transit at this time.  Sudbury "claims" to be running biodiesel in a bunch of busses and I've seen the biodiesel pump at the town yard.  I couldn't find the guy I was looking for and I'm not sure if they keep the fuel tank in side.  They do park the busses inside as far as I can tell so I guess they are cheating.  I also saw a Sudbury snowplow/dumptruck with a biodiesel sticker on it.  Will have to keep looking into it...  Sudbury is supposed to starting making biodiesel this year and I'm prepared to use it during the summer if it becomes available.  It wouldn't really benefit me to run it but it is a worthy enough cause to support.

Steve

[VW Scully]

hey dieselpower;
I am making my BioDiesel in my heated shop (however, it's only about 10'C in there) and it's about -12'C here right now so although it's not as bad as where you are, it's cold enough for me!!
Anyway, I have a little 2 burner electric stove type thing that I used to heat up the 1l of Veg. oil in a large metal pot. I also have a candy thermometer to measure the temp. of the oil prior to mixing.
You can get those burner things at Crappy Tire (but I got mine used.)
hth!

[Northboundtrain]

I'm burning as much biodiesel as temps will allow.  Thinking about doing WVO in the Rabbit, but I'm currently rebuilding the engine for it, and there's a lot of investment (particularly my time!) in it to be experimenting with an unproven fuel.  Of course if you go to some of the SVO/WVO sites like greasecar.com, the mileage that people have racked up so far on SVO/WVO is pretty convincing.

I'll probably only do it if I can be totally convinced and build a good onboard filtration system since this rig is primarily for traveling.

[srivett]

Alright, I finally got back to the guy working for Sudbury Transit.  Here is what he had to say:

We use No. 1 all year round because it produces less polution and doesn't gel during winter.  This reduces horsepower but doesn't decrease mileage.

We run B5 during the winter and B20 during the summer (mixed with No. 1, not No. 2).  They also said it was not possible to burn B100?  I personally thought it was...

The fuel comes from a CO-OP in Verner or Warren.  This CO-OP hopes to start producing biodiesel this year and would like to put a public station in Sudbury.

The cost is an extra 20 to 22 cents per litre over straight No. 1 (I believe this cost increase is only for the BD5, it's more than a few cents extra for BD20 right?)

No modifications were done to the buses, they started burning B20 without any preperation.  At first the fuel filters were showing black fuel due to cleaning but it never plugged the filters.  Their fuel lines are lined with Silicone and have not had a problem.  The buses have not had any problems at all in fact.  The buses have the same fuel return system as the VW so this warms the tank a fair bit.

They burn the waste engine and transmission oil to heat their garage facility.

In 2007 there will be new NOX laws for diesels so they are looking into getting Catalytic converts.  There is concern that a poorly chosen cat will increase NOX.

I hope this info is useful,
Steve

[VW Scully]

Maybe the Bus guy can't run B100 since they can't afford to change all the fuel lines in the Buses?? Other than that; can't see why not!?  :?:
At least they are doing SOMETHING though!

However, burning waste oil for heat is a rather "pollutey" activity I understand the need to 'reduce/reuse/recycle' but it's technically better to properly recycle waste oil.
Anyway, it's good you got some feedback though.

I just did an Environmental Site Assessment at a local Diesel shop and they looked at me like I was from another planet when I mentioned my car runs on BioDiesel! ha ha

[Northern RD]

Missing the "partially" option! Also you could do separate Biodiesel and SVO options to get more from this poll.

Am running on 25% SVO at the moment,  have tried up to an estimated 60%. Weather is getting too cold for such experiments without any form of preheating, so I am working on some preheating contraption. I am definitely sticking with SVO though. Making my own biodiesel will probably be too messy and time consuming (what do I do with the glycerine residue? where do I get the required ingredients?).

SVO is the cheapest option per mile, although it does require a small investment in preheating/switching equipment and possibly extra countermeasures if you have to deal with REALLY cold weather (preheating it in the engine bay does not help if the stuff turns to jelly in the tank)

Marcel

I ran the stuff in my `87 NA Golf for a while and i agree, it turns to something like jelly at low temps. However, at extream lows like -42 celsius here, i don`t think what you experienced in the netherlands was as bad as wht it was here(Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada).
N.

[srivett]

They just officially announced that they are going ahead with the biodiesel plant in Sudbury.  TopiaEnergy is the company in charge of the build but I'm sure it will be funded by a bunch of different interests.

Steve