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Cummings 4b pump questions by fuslit on 01 Nov, 2006 05:35
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I'm in the process of building up RabbitGTDguy's old rabbit with a 1.6 td.
Since this is my first engine build it means I have zero experience in the engine building dept BUT I am very mechanically inclined. The plan is to take notes from what everyone else has done here to minimize 'weak' spots (head studs, head gasket, etc) as well as build up a motor that I can learn from.
But, if I get stuck, Joe lives pretty close and has said that he would be willing to help me with the majority of the questions that crop up (most are probably stupid.) Thanks Joe! Because this is my first engine build and it will be a learning experience, my goal is to have an engine that is 1) good amount of power 2) pretty reliable 3) provides me the opportunity to learn from and build a second engine with the knowledge I gain from this.
I already know that at some point I will want to have more power from the car then what it will have when I start. (using the 1.6td pump) Also, the 2nd engine I want to build will be a m-tdi and if I can buy a part now that I would be able to re-use later I am interested in looking into it. So, keeping that in mind and because my 1st engine will be a 1.6td not a TDI. Here are some random thoughts I was kicking around and don't know the answers to (feel free to tell me to look elsewhere):
- Would a Cummings 4b pump even be feasible to try and run on a 1.6td?
- Would the 1.6 high revving rpm range be to fast/high for the pump?
- What injectors (or modifications to the injectors) would need to be done to take advantage of the extra fuel that would be present?
- What turbo/intercooler combo do you think should be run in conjunction with this? Turbo: HY35 (or something similar) and big intercooler?
At the moment, I have quite a large intercooler
but haven't decided what turbo I will run with it.
Thanks in advance.
Feel free to post up any other changes/pitfalls I should be aware of, I'm in the process of tearing the 1.6 down to get the block hot tanked and honed.
-Todd -
#1 by vwmike on 01 Nov, 2006 10:16
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If you talk to Hillfolk'r he can tell you about the Cummins pump on a 1.6td. He had a pump built ages ago that has the small VW input shaft with the Cummins cam plate and pump head.....so basically it's the same thing as running the Cummins pump just with an input shaft that some would question. It works and from everything I've heard he's made good power with it on both engines.
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#2 by jtanguay on 01 Nov, 2006 11:23
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beautiful rabbit... love the colour!
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#3 by RabbitJockey on 01 Nov, 2006 12:44
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the guy that built his pump is willing to do others as well, he gave me a price of 500 including parts, but if you get the parts urself it would be a couple hundred less. i forget the exact number, for that price though it would almost be best to send it giles since he is very experienced with the vw pumps and all that
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#4 by fuslit on 01 Nov, 2006 13:29
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I'll be sure to get in touch with Hillfolk'r to see what his experience with the pump that he had was like. At the moment, I'm thinking about just using my 1.6td for now, get the engine running get some experience tuning it, get a baseline to go from, etc.
yeah, that pic of the rabbit is an old shot of it (back in it's glory)
heres a pic of it last time I saw it (still in his garage, I will be picking it up next weekend.)
The paint on it is a great color for sure, Its got some rust areas I need to tackle on the shell, But it's in much better shape then my caddy, and the engine's already out of it. Anyway the rust will be the first part of the body that will be fixed. This project is going to be a learning experience for me. Body work along with the engine building.
Anyway, thanks for the information on the pump.
-Todd -
#5 by burn_your_money on 01 Nov, 2006 14:56
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Tat's an ambitious project. I hope to do the same once I get a garage.
Want to sell/trade the caddy? LOL -
#6 by RabbitJockey on 01 Nov, 2006 18:53
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that's more or less a legendary car on the tex from what i have read. if i would ever finish my car i might have a chance at that status *cough* haha, i could only hope. the only really big publicity i would like with my car is locally they have the car of the week in the sunday paper that i'd like to get into... we'll see though. hopefully spring time it will be looking sexy, then by winter i will hopefully be running an all new turbo setup and stuff. but we'll see
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#7 by DVST8R on 01 Nov, 2006 23:27
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Quote from: "Trev0rbr"
that's more or less a legendary car on the tex from what i have read. if i would ever finish my car i might have a chance at that status *cough* haha, i could only hope. the only really big publicity i would like with my car is locally they have the car of the week in the sunday paper that i'd like to get into... we'll see though. hopefully spring time it will be looking sexy, then by winter i will hopefully be running an all new turbo setup and stuff. but we'll see
It is a lengendary car to us of the old hostboard before this board, and to the mailing list before that. :wink:
It is the reason that place's like PP started making downpipes, they are Joe's idea and design. -
#8 by 935racer on 02 Nov, 2006 18:48
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Quote from: DVST8R
It is a lengendary car to us of the old hostboard before this board, and to the mailing list before that. :wink:
It is the reason that place's like PP started making downpipes, they are Joe's idea and design.
An aftermarket downpipe is no ones "idea". People have been making aftermarket downpipes for turbo charger engines for years. My downpipes are fabbed and jigged by myself, I did not copy anyones downpipe, I make them my own way for specific reasons.
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#9 by DVST8R on 02 Nov, 2006 21:30
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Oh Dave, sometimes you take things way too literally. :roll:
Chain of events, Joe sees the need for an upgraded downpipe on these motor's, builds one posts up his results, I see it make one well I'm in welding school for one of my other TD's I start working for Earl, have access to CNC plasma start making more downpipes, you comeover and we start modifiying the caddy, and mark's car ect... You decide to start Passenger Performance, I help you out, we use my basic design for the downpipes, we go our seperate ways, you make some minor changes to the design.
Now I'm not saying that you owe anyone royalties. I am saying that Joe and that car were Pioneers for 1.6TD and VW diesel performance in general. If he wouldn't have ever built that downpipe and posted up the pics, I wouldnt have ever built one and as such you wouldnt have either... :wink: -
#10 by 935racer on 02 Nov, 2006 22:47
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Quote from: DVST8R
Oh Dave, sometimes you take things way too literally. :roll:
Chain of events, Joe sees the need for an upgraded downpipe on these motor's, builds one posts up his results, I see it make one well I'm in welding school for one of my other TD's I start working for Earl, have access to CNC plasma start making more downpipes, you comeover and we start modifiying the caddy, and mark's car ect... You decide to start Passenger Performance, I help you out, we use my basic design for the downpipes, we go our seperate ways, you make some minor changes to the design.
Now I'm not saying that you owe anyone royalties. I am saying that Joe and that car were Pioneers for 1.6TD and VW diesel performance in general. If he wouldn't have ever built that downpipe and posted up the pics, I wouldnt have ever built one and as such you wouldnt have either... :wink:
A downpipe is a downpipe, some are better than others, some are engineered, some are just hacked up U bends. Wether I would have started making downpipes due to your car is debateable, but really who cares, we are all apart of the growth of vw diesel performance, wether you are someone making/designing/engineering parts or just buying them off the net, its all for the diesel love
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#11 by fuslit on 03 Nov, 2006 11:08
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*grin* I knew this car has some history, I just didn't expect it to spark some controversy so quickly ... I think it's safe to say that everyone agrees that this car is one of the earlier examples of NA Diesel tuning.
Lets just say that Joe gave me the chance to help to save this from the crusher (something I saw as a travesty.) And the body on this rabbit being in 'better' shape then my caddy with parts being a bit easier to find I decided to go for it. (plus the engine was already pulled *grin*)
As for who built what when, where, had the idea first, etc. In the words of the FastDubs moderators (vw group I hang with in Central NY) "Take it to the PM you two"
I hope (no Plan) to get this car looking as good as it once was, if not better. I plan on working closely with Joe to make sure I don't screw to much up.
As for the caddy project? I've kicked around the idea of selling it, but at this point I have more into it then I could in good conscience ask for it... (I'm sure anyone involved in vw's knows what I mean...) I think (ok I know) my wife would not be happy with me. She's made the decree that I could not sell it at a loss to what I have in it. (makes the decision to keep it even better *grin*)
(I happen to have a list of cars I'd like the caddy was one of them) I can hear it now 'You were sooo excited to get the truck, now you're selling it?!! You just like the puzzle part of getting them running again, and once you do you want to move on. . . Etc.' Heh, what a pain it was getting it running, every connection was corroded, the rear brake lines were shot.
But Its almost to the point where I could daily drive it. I don't because
1) there's no fuel gauge at the moment and gas tank that leaks when full... (onto the exhaust if your not careful)
2) Needs a CPR to fix a cold start problem, I've got an audi tubo one lined up.
3) I hear some clicking from the front pass side, I think it's in need of a wheel bearing or cv-joint.
It is a blast to drive though! full poly mounts (P.O.) kinda 'buzzes' *grin*
Anyway, I'll start an GTD engine/car build up thread so you can see what I've got, and how I'm doing with it.
The decision on the Cummings 4b: fiscally at the moment my wallet has decided to build the 1.6td that I have, spending $ on internal engine stuff. (raceware, etc.) Get it running with the existing IP and get some valuable hands on experience then move onto tuning from there.
-Todd -
#12 by DVST8R on 03 Nov, 2006 12:08
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Cool look forward to watching the build up!
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#13 by burn_your_money on 04 Nov, 2006 05:07
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Quote
You just like the puzzle part of getting them running again, and once you do you want to move on. . .
That's what I do, it's fun. I drove 4 hours for a $300 scirocco, got it running and then scrapped it Don't worry I kept all the good parts.
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#14 by RabbitGTDguy on 04 Nov, 2006 08:35
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This was quite possibly one of the biggest decisions...and hard ones that I had to make here in the last year after the mTDI build. Getting rid of the GTD. Currently, right now where I'm located...the job, etc. only alots me enough space to keep one MK1 and I found the issues in the shell that Todd mentioned and it led me to deciding that the 79 I bought last winter would be a better candidate for the mTDI than the GTD. Not wanting it to sit in storage and seeing "how" dedicated Todd wanted to be to building a IDI TD...let alone a GTD made it make all the more sense for the GTD to go his way. Its a sigh of relief that he is helping me out with it and giving the car a different fate than the one I can provide at the moment, and it enables me to focus on the 79's body this winter and further enhancement to the mTDI setup, etc. The GTD is def. going to a good home and I'll see it often and look forward to Todd "bringing her back.."
Its good to see pictures of it...
How 'bout some more...
Various stages during the 1.6TD build, etc...
The old motor...
and saying good bye to it when I bought the TDI for last winters engine build... yeap...its in the back of the focus...now in IN somewhere...
WF2003
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/joeallison_99/TDI%20ENGINE/A00063.jpg
Waiting for Todd...
I look foward to helping him with the build as he is one person thus far I've met out in this "new" area that seems to really be dedicated to the progression of a project. Its been 2003 since the car last really saw solid daylight, and I'm looking forward to see its next "evolution" if you will.
As for other things... don't post a whole lot here anymore but really can see some of the old board members here I remember the old boards, the technical contributions with no $$$ exchanged and no ...well, lets not go there...
Either way, its nice to have that recognition...lets not forget about Jake (who was doing some of this ALOT earlier and who I remember emailing correspondence between when I first started building the initial TD for the car) as well as others like Marc, Dr. Diese and many others...
Its awesome to still see so many around...and growing...
Anyways...this is Todd's thread... can't wait to help you out Todd. We're going to make this GREAT!!!
Oh...and shameless mTDI 79 MK1 picture...since I plan to step close to what I did on the GTD with it and BEYOND this winter... 
running very well...very CrAzY and ready for winter hibernation here at the end of the month...
It'll be great to have more than one diesel lover close by in the area.
Joe