Author Topic: unable to start motor!  (Read 4170 times)

Reply #15May 15, 2014, 01:02:51 am

TylerDurden

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    I have a VW problem.
Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 01:02:51 am »
Exactly 180 out can run poorly... 15o retarded, maybe not at all. Depends on the rest of the picture.

Dial gauge is cheap and easy. $15 at harbor freight.


Reply #16May 15, 2014, 05:18:02 am

Gizmoman

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Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 05:18:02 am »
Went back and re-read the original post . . .
Quote
cracked the hard lines going to the injectors and still nothing.  I do have fuel seeping from cylinder 2 and 4's injectors so I tightened those lines down but left the other two cracked.

If there's no fuel bubbling out of 1 & 3 you must still have air in the system. If pull starting and a dial is out I'd start by getting a container of diesel and feeding the IP from a raised elevation with a short preferably clear hose (siphon). Time the IP as close as you can get it making sure the cam is set as well. I believe moving the IP towards the head a smidge is better than the opposite, but someone here may be able to confirm.

Crank the engine - jump the battery if needed to improve cranking speed and "feel" for starter heat. Three injectors getting fuel should make it begin to at least cough and sputter. Once it begins to take, the RPM's will improve and the last one should start bubbling. Tighten this and you should fire up. Hook up the original fuel lines. If it won't start after that, you have an air leak in your supply.

Hopefully now you can "run it over to your buddy's house" and get it timed properly.

Keep us posted - there's quite a few guys here trying to help.
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #17May 15, 2014, 06:31:55 am

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 06:31:55 am »


Dr Elliot,
Don't confuse priming the pump's internals, ie leaking at the outlet banjo, with additional requirement of priming the injector fuel lines.

If it were my car, this is what I'd do:

1) Be sure that crank TDC on the flywheel corresponds with a suitable bar in the cam timing slot, and any necessary feeler gauge blade inserted to make parallel. Now glance at the cam lobes next to the cam sprocket and be sure they are pointing skywards.Remove locking bar. Now you are safe from mechanical interference, you will not damage the engine without a journey at speed.

2)Disconnect glow plugs  Pulling the relay is easiest.

3) Slacken and raise the fuel line nuts off the injectors. dry the joints, and then crank for a couple of seconds. Inspect the joints. Any that become wet, finger tighten the nuts back on. Proceed  until all 4 are primed. Crank for a few seconds more. Wipe joints dry on 2, 3 & 4, and nip up with spanner.

4) Slacken line clamp for #1, and #2. Raise #1 injector nut. Remove cam cover, if not still off.
Dry joint, and with ignition  on, crank by hand with a spanner or wheel raised in gear, and check for the diesel pulse on the joint.
It should correspond to about 25 degrees before TDC, with #1 cam lobes pointing skywards.

Retighten #1 nut by hand, crank for a few more seconds and fully tighten. Retighten line clamp.

5) At this point, TDC should mean mark on flywheel, slot on cam, and notch on pump sprocket, should line up (nearly) with ridge on pump flange.

6) Reconnect plug relay. Car should start, or show signs of starting with cranking.

7) If you cannot achieve 3)above, then problem lies either within pump or back towards the fuel tank.
 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 03:36:28 pm by Mark(The Miser)UK »
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #18May 15, 2014, 12:31:16 pm

docterelliott

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Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 12:31:16 pm »
I can hear the solenoid clicking so thats good.  My buddy has the IP timer tool which is why I was going to take it to him but I guess I will just barrow it.  Hopefully going to check compression today.  The motor was really easy to turn over by hand so I want to make sure this is'nt all for nothing.  I had a perfectly sized file in the cam lock location when I installed the timing belt. worked great. 
A friend of mine mentioned something about needing to see white smoke out the tail pipe when Im cranking and if Im not then Im not getting any fuel and well, Im not.  So we are going to unplug the fuel feed from the filter (both sides) and stick in a bucket of diesel and see if it takes or something.  not sure how it works. his idea but I trust him.

Reply #19May 15, 2014, 12:44:53 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 12:44:53 pm »
...  So we are going to unplug the fuel feed from the filter (both sides) and stick in a bucket of diesel and see if it takes or something.  not sure how it works. his idea but I trust him.

I'd use a clean jar... >5 micron particles can screw ya. Injection components should be handled with surgical cleanliness.

Reply #20May 15, 2014, 03:43:17 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

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Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 03:43:17 pm »
I can hear the solenoid clicking so thats good.  My buddy has the IP timer tool which is why I was going to take it to him but I guess I will just barrow it.  Hopefully going to check compression today.  The motor was really easy to turn over by hand so I want to make sure this is'nt all for nothing.  I had a perfectly sized file in the cam lock location when I installed the timing belt. worked great. 
A friend of mine mentioned something about needing to see white smoke out the tail pipe when Im cranking and if Im not then Im not getting any fuel and well, I'm not.  So we are going to unplug the fuel feed from the filter (both sides) and stick in a bucket of diesel and see if it takes or something.  not sure how it works. his idea but I trust him.
Basically, less loading on the internal lift pump, and removes hidden blockages from front to back of car. Being methodical will get you there!
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #21May 16, 2014, 06:18:37 am

Gizmoman

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Re: unable to start motor!
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2014, 06:18:37 am »
Quote
The motor was really easy to turn over by hand so I want to make sure this is'nt all for nothing

Obviously lack of compression could be your issue but you could also have arms like Arnold ;D - possibly your friend has a compression tester as well?
Fuel to all four injectors is still required. There's plenty of these engines running with low compression.
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost