Tuned IDI vs VR6.

[Jaceb-GLI]

My ECO is set for 15psi no intercooler and I have no issues getting from 60-80mph to pass someone, even with the RPM's "screaming." My pump is just a stock TD pump with more fuel, no governor "mod" or anything else.

[jaed_43725]

The turbo has little to do with it. 22 psi is 22 psi. It still pushes a little smoke at higher speeds if I floor it, so I am getting fuel. My tires are stock size, and my rims are 15" BBS. My tach is correct. The issue isnt that its revving to high at say 70 mph, because thats like 3,200 or so rpm's. The issue is that past 50 mph if I try to pass someone it has no guts at all. It just makes no power. Now, it might not be getting enough fuel at that point, which a bigger fuel pin would solve. But also its running so high RPM's that anything steady past 3,200 is just asking for trouble. These IDI's may like to rev, but thats only between shifts. I would not try to hold this thing steady at 75 mph, as thats asking for destruction.

Realistically I should be able to change trans and get 2,800 rpm at 75 which is good for a diesel vehicle like this. Ultimately VW had another failure of engineering. They corrected it the next year though.

[theman53]

The turbo has little to do with it. 22 psi is 22 psi. It still pushes a little smoke at higher speeds if I floor it, so I am getting fuel. My tires are stock size, and my rims are 15" BBS. My tach is correct. The issue isnt that its revving to high at say 70 mph, because thats like 3,200 or so rpm's. The issue is that past 50 mph if I try to pass someone it has no guts at all. It just makes no power. Now, it might not be getting enough fuel at that point, which a bigger fuel pin would solve. But also its running so high RPM's that anything steady past 3,200 is just asking for trouble. These IDI's may like to rev, but thats only between shifts. I would not try to hold this thing steady at 75 mph, as thats asking for destruction.

Realistically I should be able to change trans and get 2,800 rpm at 75 which is good for a diesel vehicle like this. Ultimately VW had another failure of engineering. They corrected it the next year though.

Oh, the problems you reported weren't really the problem. Downshift into 3rd or 4th if you really want to gain speed at 55mph. Holding it at 4,000 rpm for hours at a time on the freeway will not destroy it. Report back with your findings.

[745 turbogreasel]

anything steady past 3,200 is just asking for trouble.

No, it isn't  That's barely enough to  keep the turbo spooled on a stock IDI because it is designed and intended for  much higher operating speeds.

[jaed_43725]

Aint no way in hell I am downshifting at 50 mph to 4th in that car. Thats about 4,800 rpms. Thats spinning a bearing territory.

And keeping it steady past 3,200 rpm is asking for trouble. At that speed I barely have to touch the gas and I have 22 psi. The K24 would barely pull 12 psi then. It was just way to big for the engine.

So can anyone else attest to how a VR6 feels when trying to pass someone from about 45 mph?

[theman53]

Aint no way in hell I am downshifting at 50 mph to 4th in that car. Thats about 4,800 rpms. Thats spinning a bearing territory.

And keeping it steady past 3,200 rpm is asking for trouble. At that speed I barely have to touch the gas and I have 22 psi. The K24 would barely pull 12 psi then. It was just way to big for the engine.

So can anyone else attest to how a VR6 feels when trying to pass someone from about 45 mph?

You don't understand this engine. It is basically the same bottom end that the 16v 1.8l that stock spins around 7,000 rpm or higher. The factory governor usually was set around 5,300rpm and you could put a brick on the pedal in neutral and walk away while it free revs at 5,300 rpm until it over heats from no air flow past the rad.

Your tach is broken if you downshift at 50mph and it reads 4,800 rpm. With your trans and stock sized tires it should read 3,000 rpm at 50mph. http://www.scirocco.org/gears/

This is not your F250, they rev like crazy. IMHO you need to shift and trust it, and my personal preference is a much bigger turbo, which BTW the K24 which may have been 14 pounds per minute compressor is not too big. I am running a 32 lb/min compressor and it is just fine.

Learn more about the VW diesel and its capabilities and you may not need the vr

[jaed_43725]

I have a good understanding of the engine. The mechanical components may be able to spin to 7K. But the fuel delivery is only good until about 5K, after which it has a huge fall off. It falls off after 3K as well.

The tach is verified working correctly. My trans is the crappy one that was meant for the 16v. With the gearing they put in it, it will spin fast. I believe this to be the biggest issue with the car. Ideally it should be spinning 2,800 at 75.

My F-250 spins 3K 70. But its got a stupid C-6 in it. I thought about putting a ZF-5 in it, but I figure its just better to sell it for a PSD. The K-24 just could not pull boost ever down the interstate uphill. It spun freely and all. It was just way to big for the 1.6.

I really do like the car and all. But unless I can find a proper tranny I may have to move to something different.

[vanbcguy]

^^^ what he said. These engines absolutely have no problems with higher revs. The bottom end is basically the same as all the gasser VW engines through till the end of the 90s. You have a very good oiling system and a solid bottom end designed to make power through RPMs, it is not a truck diesel.

Yes, the pump starts pulling fuel off about 3500 RPM in stock form and continues to reduce it from there. If you haven't already done the gov mod then that's a basically free way to take care of that problem. The pump head itself is good to about 6K, the governor is an artificial limitation.

I think what we are all getting at is that the issues you are experiencing are not typical for the rest of us, yet we seem to be doing the same sort of driving. You can fix what you've got for less than $1k assuming we are talking about swapping in a good used diesel transmission and putting in a brand new clutch, probably less. There is no way you are going to get a VR6 in that car for anywhere close to that, plus you are going to be doubling your fuel bill.

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[EcoTX]

Yea my ECOdiesel has spent most of its 404,000 miles over 3500RPM on Texas highways, because AVX and 75 MPH speed limits.

Using a lifetime average speed of 45MPH, my engine has clocked close to 9000 hours of run-time I'd estimate.
That doesn't even sound like a lot for a 22 year old car...the engine in it has only been ran for approx ONE full years worth of time (9000 hours).
Its basically spent 21 years sitting idle as a lawn ornament and only 1 year driving me places LOL.

Now lets say, about 60% of that time was cruising highway speeds above 65MPH / 3000 RPM.
That is ~5400 HOURS, or 225 solid 24-hr days operating at 3000-4000 RPM loaded on the highway.

The factory headbolts have never been touched on my car, still has excellent compression, original headgasket, original turbo, and shows no signs of giving it up anytime soon.

Would it be the same condition if it had been running all those days at 2000 RPM on the highway?  Or 5000?  Probably.
RPM is not your issue man...

[theman53]

I went back as I thought you said you had the ACH...even if you have the AVX 4th gear at 50mph will be 3,200 rpm, not 4,000. AGAIN, if you tach says 4,000 at 50mph it is wrong. Even if it did, 4,000 is not anything to worry about.

[RabbitJockey]

maybe your old k24 had a stuck open wastegate?  thats a very common problem with the k24 and would make the turbo spool very very slowly and it would have trouble maintaining boost.  "The turbo has little to do with it. 22 psi is 22 psi."  and i definitely don't agree with this, the intake pressure is only telling part of the story about what your turbo is doing, it could easily be taking 40psi or more of exhaust manifold pressure to be making that 22 psi in the intake manifold with such a small turbo, and that 22psi in the intake is very thin hot air.  it's really only the amount pressure in the intake, it's not giving you any relation to how much air you are actually moving.

and even tdi's can be made to rev to 6000 rpms, going over 3k is not a big deal, and well with in the normal operating range of these engines, i used to rev my rabbit to 5k+ nearly every day with no ill effects.

[Jaceb-GLI]

Changing to a longer ratio trans isnt going to make it accelerate quicker...if its already a dog its going to be even worse. Put a stock TD pump on it and I bet it does just fine, almost sounds like your IP is a piece of crap to be honest...plus 22psi with a K14 and no intercooler is beyond dumb. Like I said before....my eco has NO problems passing anyone in fifth gear....

also, fwiw, I would SMOKE my corrado from 60mph to 75-80mph if both were left in 5th, right next to each other and floored it. It is even more of a dog than the IDI in fifth, so i'm not sure what you're going for here..Why did you buy an IDI if you wanted power and why did you buy it if the mileage doesnt matter? Sell it to someone that can make it run properly because there's something off about your car.

p.s. my eco has 220k+ miles and the corrado has 90k..I have no problem running 75-80mph down the highway with the AVX trans..in fact it loves it. And that is stouter ratios than the ACH you have.

[Smoker]

22 psi is 22 psi.

No.  It isn't.

[Smoker]

I have a good understanding of the engine.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, but it seems to me like you started a thread asking for advice/information, but you're unwilling to hear what more knowledgeable people (not me) have to share with you.

[wolf_walker]

I have a good understanding of the engine.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, but it seems to me like you started a thread asking for advice/information, but you're unwilling to hear what more knowledgeable people (not me) have to share with you.

Yeah, pretty much everything said in here is true.  My NA 1.9 performs better than you are describing from your turbo motor.  I've owned them too, none of em should have trouble doing what yours isn't able, and the RPM's will not hurt it.  Also, the factory tach is driven off the freakin alternator belt, pulley size changes, they slip, the tachs are plain wrong, it's a vague suggestion at best imo.