New WAIC replaces laminova

[Alcaid]

Watercooled IC / intake manifold combined, short distance for the air to travel

[bbob203]

That's long winter innovation.

[Gizmoman]

What type of intake are thinking of going with?

Well, I don't quite have room for that that . That is the same IC I have but I'm keeping the IC stock. It will be very close to the turbo though so my lag should be minimal. The van has an area in font of the rear tail light I can tuck the IC into and just two short elbows and bits of tube and I'll me hooked up.

As for the intake manifold itself, I'm going to tig up something using mandrel bent 1-1/4" 90's and possibly a chunk of aluminum tooling plate for the flange. I really haven't had a chance to work on the design details but I hope to this weekend (in Solid Works). It will be based on theman's experience with sausage stuffers from a chamber - the goal being low end torque. I'm hsing tubing though so I'm not sure of the outcome. I figure nearly anything is better than stock and since I already cut up my stock intake, what the hey.

[Alcaid]

Just slap a PD130/PD150 intake on it and be done with it, they flow very good

[Gizmoman]

What type of intake are thinking of going with?

Well, I don't quite have room for that that . That is the same IC I have but I'm keeping the IC stock. It will be very close to the turbo though so my lag should be minimal. The van has an area in font of the rear tail light I can tuck the IC into and just two short elbows and bits of tube and I'll me hooked up.

As for the intake manifold itself, I'm going to tig up something using mandrel bent 1-1/4" 90's and possibly a chunk of aluminum tooling plate for the flange. I really haven't had a chance to work on the design details but I hope to this weekend (in Solid Works). It will be based on theman's experience with sausage stuffers from a chamber - the goal being low end torque. I'm hsing tubing though so I'm not sure of the outcome. I figure nearly anything is better than stock and since I already cut up my stock intake, what the hey.

Just slap a PD130/PD150 intake on it and be done with it, they flow very good

I was thinking something like this:





Not sure if my tig skills are up to it though.
I can get two mandrel bent 180's, cut them basically in half, water-jet cut the plate profile and mill the four 1-1/4" ports, The collector tube is a leftover piece of the 2-1/2" aluminum pipe I got for the WAIC.

I'd face-mill the plate after all the welding was done.

I'm not too sure how important the reduction of the collector is. Many of the custom units I've seen photos of, have a reduction and it seems to make sense. If it's not needed though, Id rather not add the work.

A PD150 would be quick - just need to find one for sale.

[Alcaid]

Intake and camshaft simulations:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2935723&postcount=70

[Gizmoman]

Intake and camshaft simulations:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2935723&postcount=70

Alcaid, I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but it reads like camshaft changes will do more for low end than runner length which basically do little. I've read that there are cams available that improve the engine, and I've also read they don't do much. As for runner length, my stock AAZ intake essentially had none at all - just a simple aluminum chamber with four short elbows.

To be honest, I'm at the mercy of others when it comes to stuff like this (not being a diesel intake engineer). I believe theman and several others have posted gains in low end by adding runners of a given length - some have improved dyno results as well. As I need to have an intake of some sort to flow all that air from my new turbo , and PD150's are as rare as hen's teeth in San Diego, I might as well build something. I still have the original top half of the AAZ intake and the elbow that bolts to it. It would be easy to weld it back together. But it just seems to make sense that the additional fuel from the Giles pump combined with the additional air and boost needs a better intake as well.

I should also point out that the test you linked to was done at 4,000 RPM, I'm looking for low end torque which I may still need to improve with a waste-gated turbo.

[Alcaid]

Point is that both calculations and dyno results has proven a cam to give benefits. I have yet to see proof that the PD130/150 intakes are worse than any other, diy or other. The longer runner SDI intakes has not proved to be any better once dynoed.

By all means, a well constructed intake made with your own bare hands is an impressive achievement but don't count on it giving you lots of extra HP and ft-lbs.

Getting hold of those intakes are easier here in Europe, they are for sale on tdiclub from time to time. I have one extra on the shelf but is is from a Passat PD130 meaning intake is pointed towards gearbox and not towards timing belt as they are on transverse engines

[Gizmoman]

Point is that both calculations and dyno results has proven a cam to give benefits. I have yet to see proof that the PD130/150 intakes are worse than any other, diy or other. The longer runner SDI intakes has not proved to be any better once dynoed.

By all means, a well constructed intake made with your own bare hands is an impressive achievement but don't count on it giving you lots of extra HP and ft-lbs.

Getting hold of those intakes are easier here in Europe, they are for sale on tdiclub from time to time. I have one extra on the shelf but is is from a Passat PD130 meaning intake is pointed towards gearbox and not towards timing belt as they are on transverse engines

Thanks Alcaid, can't sleep so I followed your link to the entire post (quite long) and am reading it now. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=277462&page=2

After I'm done with that I'll do some more searching for a PD150 with the front facing intake.

[theman53]

Alcaid I believe is correct on the intake not giving you "more" hp or torque, but I think it is a question of "where" it puts it. I am sorry I cannot find my links, but the links I had and the copy of my machinists weird book he had told of various secrets to building an intake. While I cannot comment on PD intakes as I haven't ran one, it looks like they took the same idea as I did to building it. Comparing it and the one I built to the older intakes it is really similar, just not as long of runners and differently shaped. The PD has 4 individual runners instead of the open plenum, which by what I have read and experienced with my intakes, change the velocity of how and when the air goes past the valve. From what they tell me air coming into an engine will act like a sound wave bouncing off of the top of the intake and the closed intake valve. This happens at the speed of sound, so you "tune" your intake by the speed of sound vs how long the runners are and some other calculations that I cannot remember and sadly cannot find the links to. IIRC it was the volume of a cylinder x the speed of sound and divided by how much air the engine could use at x rpm with the cam duration and open at 1/2 lift, but it was more complicated than that...you get the idea. That said, it was supposed to give you the RPM that the air filling the cylinder would give you the peak torque. Basically, it boils down to the longer runner the lower the torque will come on. It really won't add 30 ft/lbs over any other intake, it just moves where the peak torque comes on and makes it a flatter torque curve.

   I would be tempted to not do a thing and try the new turbo with the old intake to see if that would do you. One variable at a time...and it costs less time and money. If it doesnt' work out, you always know what you can do later and we can try and help. Plus as an easy fix you could quickly fit a PD intake back there if your laminova fit.

[Gizmoman]

Alcaid I believe is correct on the intake not giving you "more" hp or torque, but I think it is a question of "where" it puts it. I am sorry I cannot find my links, but the links I had and the copy of my machinists weird book he had told of various secrets to building an intake. While I cannot comment on PD intakes as I haven't ran one, it looks like they took the same idea as I did to building it. Comparing it and the one I built to the older intakes it is really similar, just not as long of runners and differently shaped. The PD has 4 individual runners instead of the open plenum, which by what I have read and experienced with my intakes, change the velocity of how and when the air goes past the valve. From what they tell me air coming into an engine will act like a sound wave bouncing off of the top of the intake and the closed intake valve. This happens at the speed of sound, so you "tune" your intake by the speed of sound vs how long the runners are and some other calculations that I cannot remember and sadly cannot find the links to. IIRC it was the volume of a cylinder x the speed of sound and divided by how much air the engine could use at x rpm with the cam duration and open at 1/2 lift, but it was more complicated than that...you get the idea. That said, it was supposed to give you the RPM that the air filling the cylinder would give you the peak torque. Basically, it boils down to the longer runner the lower the torque will come on. It really won't add 30 ft/lbs over any other intake, it just moves where the peak torque comes on and makes it a flatter torque curve.

   I would be tempted to not do a thing and try the new turbo with the old intake to see if that would do you. One variable at a time...and it costs less time and money. If it doesnt' work out, you always know what you can do later and we can try and help. Plus as an easy fix you could quickly fit a PD intake back there if your laminova fit.

Thanks theman, much appreciated. After reading six pages on the topic last night, combined with your explanation and perspective, I think I am going to do something simple like this:



Four plates, a tube (which I already have) and the bottom half of my AAZ manifold. I can't find a PD150 intake and I think this will flow much better anyhoo.

[bbob203]

www.dutchautoparts.com will have one.

[Gizmoman]

www.dutchautoparts.com will have one.

Thanks bbob.
Building the one pictured above is practically free. I already have some .09 aluminum plate, the 2-1/2" pipe, a bead roller and the lower half of the AAZ casting.

Unless someone speaks against having no runners at all.

[Alcaid]

Weld a water cooled IC in there like the pictures I posted above as short as piping can be with an IC

[bbob203]

Weld a water cooled IC in there like the pictures I posted above as short as piping can be with an IC

Someone should sell these for real.