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Coolant Warning & Head Gasket Bodges?
by
smutts
on 06 Jan, 2014 07:01
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As you may know my waterpump committed suicide by a pinhole leak, unfortunately the low coolant level warning didn't come on, but at no point did the gauge get near the stop. Trouble is the temp gauge reads water temperature, tricky if there is no water. So it looks as though the head has overheated, and the hoses are getting pumped up after about five miles of driving & still hard once cool.
So, test your warning light every three months, syphon some coolant out, start the engine and test the coolant warning lamp comes on, ( it takes about 15 seconds to come on to prevent false alarms).
In my case a bit of damp sludge in the expansion tank probably kept enough current going across the terminals to prevent the alarm working.
So............Do any of those bodges in a bottle actually work? (k-seal, bars-leaks etc). or will a retorque of the headbolts possibly help?
Presently feeling gutted.
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#1
by
vanbcguy
on 06 Jan, 2014 08:08
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I read this somewhere, words to live by:
"Never try a chemical solution for a mechanical problem"
Almost all those magic bottle things work by filling your system with some kind of goop. At best they are a band aid until you can sell the car to some poor unsuspecting teenager.
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#2
by
TylerDurden
on 06 Jan, 2014 10:12
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So............Do any of those bodges in a bottle actually work? (k-seal, bars-leaks etc). or will a retorque of the headbolts possibly help?
As a temporary bandage, Bars-Leaks Head Gasket FIX... ~$30/bottle. Un-friggin-believable.
It rescued a buddy's Chrysler 3.8 Intrepid that was blowing a geyser of coolant 3min after cold-startup. Car was in service for another year with no other work, until the frame rotted out... drove it to the boneyard.
I had nothin to lose by trying it... the alternative was scrapping the car. I was impressed. No system draining/flushing/waiting/BS... pour it in, done.
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#3
by
745 turbogreasel
on 06 Jan, 2014 10:48
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At least some of them work some of the time, occasionally even for a long time.
IMO, if you will be repairing the motor, its just more goo to clean out before your cooling system is up to par again though.
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#4
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 06 Jan, 2014 15:52
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tyler stated a year, that's a junk car, all of that stuff is a bad band-aid, it dries hard, bonding I figure, theres no real way to get it out. if in the oil all the oil passages will have that stuff coated over everything, same for cooling system, radiator and heater core and everything else will get a coating inside. the block will end up being un-reusable.
the sensor in the reservoir do go bad and replacing jug isn't a big prob. that sensor is very important, a low coolant situation is avoided when sensor works.
bummer, sorry that happened, its hard to stay on top of things you think are working and then find something like a $15 sensor; right there, you look at it every time you open the hood.
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#5
by
TylerDurden
on 06 Jan, 2014 16:42
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Sodium silicate can be used to fill gaps within the head gasket. Commonly used on aluminum alloy cylinder heads, which are sensitive to thermally induced surface deflection, and can be caused by many things including head-bolt stretching, deficient coolant delivery, high cylinder head pressure, over-heating, etc.
"Liquid glass" (sodium silicate) is added to the system through the radiator, and allowed to circulate. Sodium silicate is suspended in the coolant until it reaches the cylinder head. At 100–105 °C sodium silicate loses water molecules to form a glass seal with a re-melt temperature above 810 °C.
A sodium silicate repair will last two years, sometimes longer. The repair occurs rapidly, and symptoms disappear instantly. This repair only works when the sodium silicate reaches its "conversion" temperature at 100–105 °C. Contamination of engine oil is a serious possibility in situations in which a coolant-to-oil leak is present. Sodium silicate (glass particulate) contamination of lubricants is detrimental to their function.
Not sure it really hurts much...
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#6
by
damac
on 06 Jan, 2014 20:42
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That sucks. I have had a pretty good record on my 85 jetta with that light. Once in a while false lighting that would go away on a restart, otherwise I saw it catch a few incidents.
What happened that made you think it overheated? Was there no water up in the head when you pulled apart or something?
The hard hoses you mention that happens during a normal heat cycle and being pressure when its cold just sound normal to me. My rebuilt rabbit I have been daily driving for over a year is just fine and does this. Not losing liquid or overheating, and I can go crack the reservoir cap later and have it let out a woosh.
A family member overheated my jetta last year, IGNORED those lights just to get up over the next hill and it locked up. Had to rescue that one. Combustion gases I thought always win against a <20 psi reservoir cap?
I have a couple mk1 chasis and for fun wanted to use one of those stainless floats and see if I could attach it to reservoir, and relay it to an alarm I use on my other gages.
I have my temp gage set to alarm trigger with auber gage/sender coming right out of the head, but without the water pump moving I'm guessing the head could melt down before I saw an increase in temp. So I guess I can't win on this one either, but its nice to look at and get to know my motor.
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#7
by
smutts
on 06 Jan, 2014 23:44
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As the hoses are still pumped up hard when cool, it definately is combustion gases. But is only a tiny amount, a
really tiny amount of gas that is getting past the gasket. Trouble is eventually it will get worse. Has anyone had joy with tightening the head bolts another 45 degrees (TTY 10.9 bolts) to nip this sort of thing in the bud?
I generally agree with the snake oil haters, the gasket is easy, it's just getting at everything behind the engine and turbo, and the brake servo is in the way as 'tis merry old england but I really don't want a two day swearfest out in the pouring rain, at least not till the weather improves. I need to get a garage.
fresh antifreeze & k-seal, let's see what happens.
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#8
by
TylerDurden
on 07 Jan, 2014 05:37
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Has anyone had joy with tightening the head bolts another 45 degrees (TTY 10.9 bolts) to nip this sort of thing in the bud?
I have also done this.
Caveat though...
I bought my Dasher wagon in Miami and drove it to Michigan with no problems. The next trip though, the coolant started geysering out the expansion tank 5mi after leaving. I re-torqued the bolts in a parking lot and took it back home and checked the PO's service receipts... he had a new head installed just before I bought the car and neglected to tell me it still needed the 1000mi re-torque.
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#9
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 07 Jan, 2014 07:23
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I doubt it will work, but something like 1/16th of a turn max,(evenly). if tightening down will help at all this should help the most, a full 1/4 turn is A Lot ,, maybe try first?, the bottle stuff sounds like will bond with a lot of stuff that reaches about 100c, block, head, that extra layer, plus any corrosion or build-up on the surface, will be an extra layer + the layer your putting in, and later these layers can separate making heat transfer void if this happens. (being an extra layer acts as a contaminant to bond, any cooling system has rust and/or build-up of some or more debris,)
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#10
by
745 turbogreasel
on 07 Jan, 2014 12:21
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I'd stay away from sodium silicate if getting water in the oil, it's what they used to bake the motors in all the cash for clunkers cars to insure no parts could be used to repair other cars.
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#11
by
TylerDurden
on 07 Jan, 2014 12:40
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... it's what they used to bake the motors in all the cash for clunkers cars to insure no parts could be used to repair other cars.
True, but that was done with no oil, just S-S solution so when bearing surfaces heated from lack of lubrication... wham.
I'd use it and change the oil after. Do the real fix later in the good weather.
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#12
by
smutts
on 25 Jan, 2014 03:48
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Well, here is a thumbs down for "K-Seal", has made no difference in 2500 miles. So I will join the "it is moo poo" camp. It just might work on petrol engines with their lower compression, but turbo diesel? bit too much to ask really.
Not a massive gasket leak, but the hoses pump up hard only after 3 or 4 miles, so about a pint or so of gasses are getting into the coolant in that distance. Not a show stopper, but my last head gasket job didn't use a drop of coolant in 60,000 miles, with nicely unhard hoses, so I was a bit gutted at partially cooking it.
Also, replace the thermostat if there has been an overheat, mine now is letting the temperature sink going down hills, or driving slowly, so isn't shutting properly.
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#13
by
the caveman
on 25 Jan, 2014 08:43
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I always hated that stop leak stuff. Only use it if you are driving a car on it's last legs, because if not, all the crap has to be flushed out after and i've seen it completely plug up heater cores and even right behind the rad temp sensor-keeping the rad fan from coming on.A case of a bandaid causing a sore to go septic.
On the other hand, unless you really overheated, i wouldn't worry about warped head etc, just pull the head and change the HG.
Plus now I know why you asked about simple cars in another post!
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#14
by
745 turbogreasel
on 25 Jan, 2014 12:43
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I always hated that stop leak stuff.
Too bad most cars come with some form of it from the factory eh?