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#15
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 01 Jan, 2014 10:55
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Yeah i did some rough math a while ago and determined that if i were a small business owner with a number of diesel vehicles rolling all day it would make some sense for me to have a small biodiesel operation. But otherwise the numbers just don't add up.
about watermeth, it really depends on how much you are injecting and how much time you spend with the pedal to the metal. typically it's used only under boost, and it's best if it doesn't come on too early in the boost ramp-up or if you use a progressive controller.
You could go through a couple gallons during a day at the track. or over a few weeks worth of daily driving.
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#16
by
8v-of-fury!
on 01 Jan, 2014 14:45
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It is obviously vehicle dependent, but I haven't seen more than 15% difference between the 1.6IDI's I had/have vs the ALH I have.
So, a heavier vehicle with a better engine and you still got the %10-15 better. That engine with the o2a/02j gearing in a much lighter vehicle should do way better.
I never drive for economy with my M-TDI AHU, and neither does my brother with his AAZ (both 84 Jetta's) but I'd say I do a good chucnk better on fuel then he does.
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#17
by
Gizmoman
on 01 Jan, 2014 15:57
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Yeah i did some rough math a while ago and determined that if i were a small business owner with a number of diesel vehicles rolling all day it would make some sense for me to have a small biodiesel operation. But otherwise the numbers just don't add up.
about watermeth, it really depends on how much you are injecting and how much time you spend with the pedal to the metal. typically it's used only under boost, and it's best if it doesn't come on too early in the boost ramp-up or if you use a progressive controller.
You could go through a couple gallons during a day at the track. or over a few weeks worth of daily driving.
Thanks for the reply. I ran a few numbers as well and realized I could easily need a 5 gallon tank to do a 1K road trip.
I bought the van from a guy up in Northern CA and they sold Bio at some gas stations. Not sure if it was the same stuff that was in the tank (nearly full when I emptied it) but every piece of the tank I used for other projects has a thick coat of gummy crud on it. There was a filter in the line but it was pretty plugged as well. To me the cost savings would have to be nearly free before I would run that into an IP or injectors.
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#18
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 01 Jan, 2014 19:14
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Well, ideally you set things up so that you don't need the water/meth. That's got to be easier on a diesel than a gasser.
. :Sent by pneumatic tubes
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#19
by
TylerDurden
on 01 Jan, 2014 20:15
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WVO is thick unless heated, Bio-D is processed with chemistry to not be thick or gell in the cold.
Gummy stuff has been exposed to air too long.
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#20
by
ORCoaster
on 01 Jan, 2014 21:12
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Gizmo. I think the PO had that car set up for WVO. Given that the setup you described came with heaters and pumps and such. Bio-D is derived from oil like the WVO. And as Tyler says is it adding couple of chemicals in a mixer to crack the glycerin away from the diesel part you desire. Bio-D can be thicker than regular diesel and is really fat compared to ULSD. But it doesn't need heat in the same way that WVO does. I have a jar of WVO on the back steps to allow it to settle out and even at 40 degrees it is very slow to move up the jar sides. I will need to warm it up to filter it out.
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#21
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 01 Jan, 2014 22:31
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Gizmo. I think the PO had that car set up for WVO. Given that the setup you described came with heaters and pumps and such. Bio-D is derived from oil like the WVO. And as Tyler says is it adding couple of chemicals in a mixer to crack the glycerin away from the diesel part you desire. Bio-D can be thicker than regular diesel and is really fat compared to ULSD. But it doesn't need heat in the same way that WVO does. I have a jar of WVO on the back steps to allow it to settle out and even at 40 degrees it is very slow to move up the jar sides. I will need to warm it up to filter it out.
yeah. and the truth is, there is not really any such thing as "waste vegetable oil".
i mean, in the sense that i have some gallons of rancid veg oil from frying, sure.
but on the industrial scale, it's always feed stock for something else, and it's not like i have a hookup with a restaurant owner who has a lot of frialator oil to get rid of and no existing contract with one of the dozen different companies around here who will pick it up and reprocess it into something else.
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#22
by
ORCoaster
on 02 Jan, 2014 20:02
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Ahhh yes, define WASTE. You want to dispose of it so it is waste. I want to drive the next 45 miles on that gallon of oil, so to me it is fuel.
I didn't want to get into the oil business or spend what little free time I had on the weekends to be brewing up some Bio-D or filtering some WVO. I found a guy in the Vancouver area that did have a small number of resturants that would provide him with good quality oil and he did the filtering, dewatering and centrifuge work on it. Then he sold it to a select bunch of us for 2 bucks a gallon. Someone elses waste was his two dollars.
Waste not, Want not. How often did I hear that as a kid.
The business of recycling that fryer oil was good for those that use oil and good for those that process it. It turned the product around from a pay to get rid of to pay me to take it affair.
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#23
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 03 Jan, 2014 17:25
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Ahhh yes, define WASTE. You want to dispose of it so it is waste. I want to drive the next 45 miles on that gallon of oil, so to me it is fuel.
I didn't want to get into the oil business or spend what little free time I had on the weekends to be brewing up some Bio-D or filtering some WVO. I found a guy in the Vancouver area that did have a small number of resturants that would provide him with good quality oil and he did the filtering, dewatering and centrifuge work on it. Then he sold it to a select bunch of us for 2 bucks a gallon. Someone elses waste was his two dollars.
Waste not, Want not. How often did I hear that as a kid.
The business of recycling that fryer oil was good for those that use oil and good for those that process it. It turned the product around from a pay to get rid of to pay me to take it affair.
Yeah that's basically what i was saying. if i want to spend weekends in the yard with what looks to the neighbors like a giant chemistry set i will brew beer.
i was also saying, though, that at the commercial level no veg oil is 'waste'. i've spent the last 5 years working with hazmat inventory software, and when those guys mean waste they mean destroy it.
WVO doesn't really exist. It's always feed stock or product for someone.
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#24
by
ORCoaster
on 03 Jan, 2014 19:11
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I think we will have a battle on our hands trying to change the convention from Waste Vegetable Oil to Used Vegetable Oil. UVO? Some will likely confuse it with UFO and then we will really have a battle on our hands.
Your neighbors might like the beer chemistry gig.
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#25
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 03 Jan, 2014 20:35
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I think we will have a battle on our hands trying to change the convention from Waste Vegetable Oil to Used Vegetable Oil. UVO? Some will likely confuse it with UFO and then we will really have a battle on our hands.
Your neighbors might like the beer chemistry gig.
Oddly enough, despite the fact that i am less than 50 yards from a mormon chapel, the response has not been negative.
my neighbor who keeps chickens gets my spent mash. chickens love that stuff, and it's almost entirely protein and roughage, except it has a coating of sugar on it. They go completely nuts over it.
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#26
by
Gizmoman
on 03 Jan, 2014 21:56
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I don't know what the stuff was actually. All I know is it gunked up everything and smelled a bit like rancid french fries.
The pump was just another small in-line fuel pump, just like what I'm running my diesel through. The fuel line was double walled and the outer area was for the engine coolant to keep it warm. Fancy stuff (was).
Giles said it took him many hours to clean the internals of the IP. He almost called me and said it wasn't repairable.
My apologies to the OP for the side track
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#27
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 03 Jan, 2014 22:04
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I don't know what the stuff was actually. All I know is it gunked up everything and smelled a bit like rancid french fries.
The pump was just another small in-line fuel pump, just like what I'm running my diesel through. The fuel line was double walled and the outer area was for the engine coolant to keep it warm. Fancy stuff (was).
Giles said it took him many hours to clean the internals of the IP. He almost called me and said it wasn't repairable.
My apologies to the OP for the side track
s'alright, it's all good.
straight veg oil scares me. If i find someone selling competitively priced back yard biodiesel I will inspect his processing rig and probably buy some unless he's a moron. I may even give him a few gallons of rancid frying oil.
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#28
by
745 turbogreasel
on 04 Jan, 2014 01:22
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I see it the opposite way...with backyard bio, there are myriad opportunities to screw up, and I can count on one hand the makers I've met I's trust to do any chemisty.
With SVO, there is water content, solids, and will it filter. You get a feel for inspecting the stuff after a bit...took about 1/4th of restaurants off my menu, and I have a hard time enjoying fries anymore. Yes, I don't eat oil I wold not put in my car, not the other way around.
The result of most failures is you have to flip the switch, and burn diesel till you deal with it.
I pulled my VO tank apart after 2 years of heavy service thinking it would be do for a clean, but there was nothing to do, it was still cleaner than any fryer I've ever seen.
I have seen that goo you speak of on other peoples stuff,and can only guess they were not picky enough about their oil. or didn't filter it.
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#29
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 04 Jan, 2014 11:00
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Oh i should have been more clear. The greasecar kits and people running filtered used oil, i find the idea a little sketchy and i don't think i'd spend my time and money getting there.
But if i met a competent producer of back yard biodiesel - not just filtered frialator oil - i'd try it. But i did say competent.