I would like to build a TD...Have questions

[Derekxj]

Im currently, actively looking for a TD engine...possibly a short block, to put on an engine stand and slowly build myself.
A shortblock would be nice because it would save me ALOT of guess-work. but ultimately, even a bare bones block will do.

My car is an 84. I dont want a TDI, i want it all mechanical. AAZ's are proving almost impossible to find here in the east cost and when i do they
are selling for like 3k. I dont have that kind of money. I'd ideally spend a few hundred - 400 MAX on a decent starting point for myself, as it will
also be a learning experience. Is this a good deal?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OEM-1987-1988-VW-1-6L-4-Cyl-Turbo-Diesel-Code-1C-Short-Block-/290986368276?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c0239d14&vxp=mtr

Will an ECO diesel engine out of a 90's car work? whats the difference?

[TimpanogosSlim]

The major difference with the TD shortblock is that it has oil squirters to cool the pistons.

The turbo that might come with a TD longblock is kinda lackluster by modern standards.

In Theory the TD engines are built stronger with different alloys, etc. The reality is that there are plenty of 1.6D engines out there with turbos bolted on that are doing 15psi of boost just fine.

I am a n00b myself and just recently purchased an 84 jetta coupe diesel that needs new rings. I'm going to pull it, rebuild it, and turbo it.

Right now my plan is a PD130 intake manifold and an exhaust manifold and turbo off of a 1Z or AHU. I am looking into ceramic thermal coating for the tops of the pistons, to make up for lack of oil squirters. I plan to run an intercooler and an oil cooler. The oil cooler will have a thermal bypass.

AAZ engines are supposedly easier to come by in Canada. Your profile does not say where you are.

I know a guy here where i live who will sell me a spare 1.6D longblock out of a mk1 that has been in a shed for years and right now probably has snow on it for $100.

[Derekxj]

^ Thanks for the info!! im on long island, NY.  East coast.....and a ways from canada. the 1.9's are impossible to come by here. I could probably work up a 1.6 TD block to make some nice power......I just need to find something reasonably priced. I dont need an entire engine nor do i even need a head on it. I would like to build it over lets say a years time....doing a little bit each month.

[TylerDurden]

ECO is a TD without boost enrichment type IP. It would have a K14 turbo and a catalytic convertor. The CAT is to reduce NOx emissions from higher break-pressure injectors (155bar).

[TimpanogosSlim]

Also, eBay pricing is sort of wacky and inflated.

[bajacalal]

Prices on ebay are generally "as high as the market will bear" because it's a free market with competitive bidding. But they accurately reflect market prices for goods. People aren't going to pay a higher price on ebay than they know is available elsewhere.

I think you're going to have a hard time coming up with a turbo motor for $400 or less. I think the local junkyard wants like $300 for a 4 banger Nissan Sentra motor these days and that's with you pulling it and no warranty. Real 1.6 TD engines, they are getting rare and valuable these days and people know what they're worth usually.

You might get lucky and find one where someone doesn't know what they've got but you will have be very patient and check craigslist constantly for the opportunity to arise and you will have to be ready to go and buy right now, and you may have to travel quite a ways to get one. You may also find whole cars are sometimes cheaper so that may be an option if you find one that isn't running or is rusted out.

[TimpanogosSlim]

Prices on ebay are generally "as high as the market will bear" because it's a free market with competitive bidding. But they accurately reflect market prices for goods. People aren't going to pay a higher price on ebay than they know is available elsewhere.

eBay is designed to encourage irrational bidding. There is also the difference between asking price and what kind of deal might actually get made.

Someone paying $800 for a TD shortblock wants convenience and has the money to pay for it.

Someone asking $800 for a TD shortblock is saying that they have taken risks and made expenditures of money, time, and effort, and want to be compensated for it.

Neither of those two factors mean that the value of a TD shortblock is $800 to anyone but those two parties.

valuation is a tricky thing where a number exists as a fact for only the brief moment when money changes hands. The rest of the time it is theory.

I think you're going to have a hard time coming up with a turbo motor for $400 or less. I think the local junkyard wants like $300 for a 4 banger Nissan Sentra motor these days and that's with you pulling it and no warranty. Real 1.6 TD engines, they are getting rare and valuable these days and people know what they're worth usually.

You might get lucky and find one where someone doesn't know what they've got but you will have be very patient and check craigslist constantly for the opportunity to arise and you will have to be ready to go and buy right now, and you may have to travel quite a ways to get one. You may also find whole cars are sometimes cheaper so that may be an option if you find one that isn't running or is rusted out.

This is also true. I can buy ABA longblocks for $350 all day long because there are so many of them out there.

There aren't so many TD blocks.

I looked into importing one from canada, and it appears that although there are a few in windsor that my buddy who crosses the border a few times a week can probably pick up for me and ship in a crate, it'd still end up costing at least $400, no warranty.

I decided that i don't need oil squirters that bad. If i want to spend a lot of money on a bigger, better turbo diesel i will go for a 1Z or AHU. I have no fear of electronics. But i understand the appeal of a fully mechanical engine.

[damac]

I'm assuming you are moving away from the 1.6 non turbo for a reason?

If you are talking about power I would say I have been there in that I consider a non turbo 1.6 to be a safety hazard here on california freeways.

I blindly got 79 rabbit and 85 jetta going with 1.6td motors, stock fueling and vw turbo bits and there was a night and day difference in performance.  There was a time and commute that I thought it was the perfect match.

BUT 2013 brought a different commute with traffic.  I have been daily driving my 79 rabbit and am now hating life in the car.  Don't get me wrong the car does amazing for what it is, I scream it in 4th gear and cruise in fifth gear which is useless unless on flat ground pretty much power wise.  But I don't like just being able to go with the flow in traffic at 70mph.  I want to roll on power and pass somebody if need be.

My goal ultimately has been for mileage so I never tried to mod any of the stock setup.

In my situation I know I need more power.  When I read about aaz or modding the 1.6 I'm really not sure if it makes sense $$$ wise at the end of the day vs. just doing an electronic tdi swap and tranny from a wrecked car.  Then perhaps a choice of turbo/injectors and tune and call it good.

[8v-of-fury!]

A electronic swap from a wrecked TDI is going to be your best bet hands down.. depending on the cost of the donor and your abilities.. It could be very worthwhile.

You'd spend similar money to get a 1.6 ANYWHERE NEAR the power of a mild TDI... Think about that one.

[TimpanogosSlim]

A electronic swap from a wrecked TDI is going to be your best bet hands down.. depending on the cost of the donor and your abilities.. It could be very worthwhile.

You'd spend similar money to get a 1.6 ANYWHERE NEAR the power of a mild TDI... Think about that one.

this is true.

In my situation, if i want raw power, I have my mk5 GTI, w/ tune, exhaust, etc.

my TD build is about mpg without being anemic. also because mk1 jetta coupes are awesome and nobody gives a damn about a mk5.

I don't even know that i'll fiddle with the IP. I want ecodiesel mpg but a modern, little turbo so that i have some boost before it hits the redline.

I already buy methanol in 5 gallon pails for my GTI so i will probably add a cobbled-together meth injection system for a little more top end power and lower EGTs.

if i find some amazing deals i might fiddle with biodiesel. i don't think the math adds up to a lot of money saving for the time investment, making it at home i mean, but it could be fun.

[TimpanogosSlim]

fwiw, according to car-part.com there is a 1Z "core" engine (rebuildable) at Shermie's in Bellport. 631-803-6655.

[vanbcguy]

Also fwiw an AHU / ALH will get about 30% better fuel economy than an IDI diesel, so if economy is your goal then the TDI is a better choice there too. An AHU with its stock turbo and a mechanical pump will do fantastic with minimal effort.

[burn_your_money]

Also fwiw an AHU / ALH will get about 30% better fuel economy than an IDI diesel

I thought it was 10-15%?

[theman53]

It is obviously vehicle dependent, but I haven't seen more than 15% difference between the 1.6IDI's I had/have vs the ALH I have.

[Gizmoman]

if i find some amazing deals i might fiddle with biodiesel. i don't think the math adds up to a lot of money saving for the time investment, making it at home i mean, but it could be fun.

Just a thought on you consideration of running Bio - The PO had installed an elaborate bio set-up on the van complete with a 20 gallon aluminum tank. Heated lines, pre-heater chamber, valves, pump, etc. I ran it once or twice and soon after had to rebuild the injectors. Then when I had Giles do his thing to my IP, he had to add 250 bucks to the ticket due to all the baked on crud on the internals.

The nice aluminum tank has provided lots of .09 sheet to make stuff from. Actually there's not much of it left

Still considering water/meth to cool high EGT's but worried it will be a pain to re-fill too often - especially when travelling long distances. How fast do you go through your water/meth?