Bumping the IP timing one tooth

[dieseljunkie69]

What kind of intercooler?

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Thanks Mark.
If I want to lower EGT's radically I think I only have two choices, back off the fuel screw or my right foot.
The turbo is a K14. I know there are other smaller turbos that spool faster but I need this thing pumping still at around 4K - smaller turbos generally can't sustain that (from what I've read).
Based on what libby suggested, I should have seen a reduction in EGT's with the increase of boost (makes perfect sense).

Heck, maybe I should finish that water/meth injection chingus - I was almost done with it. That would cool things off.

Remember if you want 200HP out of a 70HP engine, temperatures are bound to want to rise. Retarding the engine brings engine temp down 'relatively.'
Peak pressures drop too. Extra air/boost also cools, but then getting the turbo to ask the pump for more fuel naturally raises it up.
Running a larger than standard radiator can help. A decent intercooler too will take added heat out of the compressed air.

[theman53]

If you have the turbo rebuilt put a 360 thrust bearing in it. It will lower your egt by spooling even faster but mainly by not using so much force to spool it in the first place. Your EGT sound fine as long as it stabilizes and drops down once rolling good. If you have a fast reacting probe like a micro 1000 then I would say have fun driving. If you have another I cannot say.

[Gizmoman]

What kind of intercooler?

According the the maker of the cores its good for 200 HP.

I ported the head to what I would call a "medium". I removed quite a bit around the guides but didn't quite match the gaskets. The exhaust is 2-1/2", pretty short with one 180* and a 90* elbow to a big glasspack.

If you have the turbo rebuilt put a 360 thrust bearing in it. It will lower your egt by spooling even faster but mainly by not using so much force to spool it in the first place. Your EGT sound fine as long as it stabilizes and drops down once rolling good. If you have a fast reacting probe like a micro 1000 then I would say have fun driving. If you have another I cannot say.

The probe is very fast (1/8" diameter) and the turbo is rebuilt with a 360 bearing.

I've only done a few short freeway runs and as soon as it gets to 12-1300F, I back off. Maybe I should stick it out a bit longer and see if it comes down on it's own - kinda scary though. Maybe I should consider the same turbo you have or libby's VNT 17 with the manual control. At least then I'd have some boost off the bottom.

[theman53]

I would look at that bearing again. No way a K14 should have a spool issue with a 360 bearing and such short intake unless that intercooler is a restriction. Can you measure the pre and post IC part of the intake to see if it is causing lag? If not could you remove it and put on a stock one no IC and see if anything changes? I would run it some and break it in. Something just isn't adding up though.

[Gizmoman]

I would look at that bearing again. No way a K14 should have a spool issue with a 360 bearing and such short intake unless that intercooler is a restriction. Can you measure the pre and post IC part of the intake to see if it is causing lag? If not could you remove it and put on a stock one no IC and see if anything changes? I would run it some and break it in. Something just isn't adding up though.

I don't have a spare intake - wish I did.
I agree that something is wrong. I rebuilt the turbo myself - should have sent it out to a pro shop. I spoze I could remove the cores and plug the water ports on the four caps. Not sure if the intake can be removed though without dropping the engine, but I believe it can as they are bolts - not studs.

I guess I just need to do one thing at a time. My pulse/timing light should show up this week. I'll play with that and see what my timing is doing first.
Although it hasn't changed the EGT's that I can tell and I went from 1.25 mm to .95mm - should have seen something change I would think.

[theman53]

how many miles do you have on it? It will free up after many miles, mine took like 6,000 on the last engine. You will feel the difference at least I did. When it frees up I got 5mpg better and egt lowered slightly. At 1,300f pre turbo with a micro 1000 I would run the boost to 17psi or so and call it good. I wouldn't run it there all the time, say like cruising 55mph and it is 1300f but if you are accelerating and not leveled off I personally wouldn't worry. BUT I also have had an engine drop a precup, but my EGT were much higher, so take it for what it is worth.

[vanbcguy]

Was the "200hp" rating on the intercooler core for diesel or gas use? Remember that diesels use a lot more air than gasser so they need larger intercoolers for the same HP.

[Gizmoman]

how many miles do you have on it? It will free up after many miles, mine took like 6,000 on the last engine. You will feel the difference at least I did. When it frees up I got 5mpg better and egt lowered slightly. At 1,300f pre turbo with a micro 1000 I would run the boost to 17psi or so and call it good. I wouldn't run it there all the time, say like cruising 55mph and it is 1300f but if you are accelerating and not leveled off I personally wouldn't worry. BUT I also have had an engine drop a precup, but my EGT were much higher, so take it for what it is worth.

Yeah, I remember reading about your improved engine over time. This has maybe 30 miles on it or so. Already feels better than it did on the first run. So far I have changed the timing from 1.25 to .95mm and upped the boost from 12 to 15. Still running dino oil which I should probably replace soon.

How long (in seconds) would you run at 1300F before you backed off on the throttle?

Was the "200hp" rating on the intercooler core for diesel or gas use? Remember that diesels use a lot more air than gasser so they need larger intercoolers for the same HP.

Good point. My guess is gas.
However,I'm not trying for 200 - 150 would be more than enough

[theman53]

I continue to run conventional oil for several thousand miles, but I change it a ton until it frees up.

In all honesty I couldn't keep mine at 1300f it would rocket past 1300f until I let off. But if it would have settled in at 1300f I would have felt comfortable to leave it there for a long time *a minute* IF and that is a big IF I was going to let it cool for a long while after and say cruise at 55mph and 800egt for several miles. Especially since you have a heavier vehicle than what I do.

    The idea of more boost is once it builds then the cooler air will be helping more and it should come down some after it peaks at your 1300f. If all your tests don't work I would try a different manifold.

[libbydiesel]

I have an AHU manifold I'd let you borrow for the cost of shipping both ways.

[745 turbogreasel]

The idea of more boost is once it builds then the cooler air will be helping more and it should come down some after it peaks at your 1300f. If all your tests don't work I would try a different manifold.

I think this only works if your turbo is relatively oversized/twins where higher than stock boost is in the efficiency range.

[dieseljunkie69]

Correct. The turbo has to be somewhere in the upper efficiency range when adding more to it to cool EGT's.

If they turbo is already on the back side of the efficiency island.. adding more is just gonna make everything hotter.

[Gizmoman]

I have an AHU manifold I'd let you borrow for the cost of shipping both ways.

Thanks libby, I appreciate the offer but it would be easy to remove the cores and plug the water ports for a test. If it ends up being the inter-cooler, I might just build another with three if I can stuff them in there. I really like the "ZERO" lag of this thing. I know it sounds funny but it really does push you into the seat when it comes on.

From some of the replies do you think there would be any merit to going with your mechanical VNT 17? Seems like it would give me quick boost and not have the limitations of the K14 (move more air at high RPMS). I guess I need to solve the air flow issues first if that's the issue.

[libbydiesel]

Correct. The turbo has to be somewhere in the upper efficiency range when adding more to it to cool EGT's.

If they turbo is already on the back side of the efficiency island.. adding more is just gonna make everything hotter.

While that is true without intercooling, it is my experience with a significant number of different turbos and intercoolers that unless you are wildly out of the efficiency range of the turbo or your intercooler does a very bad job, increasing boost will lower EGTs.