Author Topic: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.  (Read 16976 times)

Reply #15May 11, 2013, 03:32:36 am

745 turbogreasel

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 03:32:36 am »
Start with the basics,  run it from a pressurized supply of clean fuel, like a can with an electric pump.

FYI running that WVO crap through these motors ruins them, so don't do it on anything that you do not intend to scrap when it quits. U of Idaho did a lot of research on this along with their BD stuff and discovered that do to incomplete combustion of the glycerine in the WVO, you end up with a bunch of gummy deposits on the injector nozzle that collect carbon particles to form a nice abrasive goo that eventually sheds and eats the rings and cylinder walls.
I guess they don't know how to chose or filter their oil.  Typical students I guess.

Reply #16May 11, 2013, 05:53:08 am

Bugsy_malone 666

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 05:53:08 am »
8v - Not sure I hav any ATF knocking about, is power steering fluid the same sort of stuff? I was also thinking, because if I am cleaning the pump off the vehicle, what about petrol? I know normally it kills fuel pumps but thats when you have a fully pressurised system and injectors, but with all that stuff its not under as much pressure and potentally safe?

I can't believe you ran the motor sounding like that. When a motor sounds like that shut it off and find out why before you ruin everything. It sounds to me like you do not have enough oil pressure to keep the lifters pumped up. Does the light even work? Put a gauge on it for a while to verify what the oil pressure really is. If that's OK check the cam timing. I don't care if you checked it 2 minutes ago, recheck it NOW. Something in the valve train is banging hard. I expect you don't have much more running time before it gets really expensive. Make SURE you get an oil pressure reading when it's banging it guts out, not just during a quiet period. If all that is good, then move on to fuel issues.

FYI running that WVO crap through these motors ruins them, so don't do it on anything that you do not intend to scrap when it quits. U of Idaho did a lot of research on this along with their BD stuff and discovered that do to incomplete combustion of the glycerine in the WVO, you end up with a bunch of gummy deposits on the injector nozzle that collect carbon particles to form a nice abrasive goo that eventually sheds and eats the rings and cylinder walls.

Seriously get off your high horse there chap, the noise is injectors not the engine turning inside out, our tractor has a very similar clatter to some of its injectors and thats something that has pushrods, it also has a bit of smoke but having done a mechanical rebuild on that except the fuel system we know its the injectors, equally my dad with 30 years of experience said you'd be surprised how loud it gets when the injectors arent firing correctly. The oil pressure light it fine and works great as I get slightly low pressure on idle when the thing is really hot (when its running normally) and apparently this can be quite common. The oil light comes on at 13psi so as soon as I pick up the revs by about 50rpm it goes out, I may just have the idle set a little low, but generally this is only a problem when hot. Having enquired about the various oil types someone said VW dont actually give a idle spec, its 2000rpm 28psi minimum and the amount it was leaking when the rocker gasket wasnt seated right, I think its easily achieving that.

Installing any sort of pressure gauge isnt possible, especially one I can see, its a Van and to get to the engine is a nightmare. The engine actually runs like a bag of nails on idle at the moment, not at the higher RPM which it was doing, so something has cleared a bit.

Now the point also is the fact that about 2 weekends ago I was driving this and it was fine, I drove it 35 miles home from my g/fs and it was still running perfect when I parked it up, its more like something seized/stuck up into position when I turned it off and left it for a week. Now there is the potential for this with WVO, but not in the couple of hundred miles its done on the stuff.

The WVO I am using is actually fairly good grade, it comes from our restaurant at work and the chef has worked in many places and said how bad some stuff can get, the stuff he gives me he said is actually the cleanest he has seen out of a restaurant and theres not much water in it either. The oil itself I leave to settle for a month or 2 then its strained through a sieve, then felt 100/50/25/5/1 Micron Filters meaning it is free from ***/debris and is actually filter to a micron rating below normal diesel filters (which tend to be 5-7 micron). Then in my van I have a fully heated second tank from the main heating system, a preheater near the pump and heated lines, it then runs through a big double tractor style filter which has 2 filters and a glass bowl for water trapping. In my mind the system is actually built to one of the best specs I have seen and people are slugging in any old crap and having less issues than me!

As previously mentioned I have noted a small leak from somewhere which I am going to investigate today weather permitting of course. If its leaking from the pump, its a definite change!

Reply #17May 11, 2013, 08:33:00 am

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2013, 08:33:00 am »
Dispels most of the nay saying.

I had an injector stick on me once and it sounded like there was something seriously mechanically wrong in the engine.  It cleared as well after I cleaned the injector a second time.  Never actually found what I would consider a problem.  No bits of anything came out.  I was running 200 miles at a time on WVO as well.  With a 5 mile exchange back to diesel so maybe just not enough time at the speed I was traveling. 

Reply #18May 11, 2013, 02:36:51 pm

745 turbogreasel

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 02:36:51 pm »
I had one sound like that on dino diesel that was just a bad nozzle, and in half an hour of run time, it burned through the water jacket and destroyed the fresh head.

Reply #19May 11, 2013, 02:56:26 pm

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2013, 02:56:26 pm »
FWIW, filtering and heat won't eliminate microscopic water dispersed in veggie oil. If it passes the "crackle-test", it might be OK, but some folks dispute even that. Another thing to avoid is Hydrogenated VO... it has the water built-in. 

I second the motion to run dino from a clean jug.  Check the flow from the out-bolt to verify ~1L/min at idle.

It is possible a vane (or more) in the lift-section of the IP is stuck or sticky.


Reply #20May 12, 2013, 12:16:16 am

Toby

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2013, 12:16:16 am »
Start with the basics,  run it from a pressurized supply of clean fuel, like a can with an electric pump.

FYI running that WVO crap through these motors ruins them, so don't do it on anything that you do not intend to scrap when it quits. U of Idaho did a lot of research on this along with their BD stuff and discovered that do to incomplete combustion of the glycerine in the WVO, you end up with a bunch of gummy deposits on the injector nozzle that collect carbon particles to form a nice abrasive goo that eventually sheds and eats the rings and cylinder walls.
I guess they don't know how to chose or filter their oil.  Typical students I guess.


Actually no. This was a decade long federally funded alternative fuel research study. Most of what we know about making, testing, storing and using BD came from them. They abandoned work on WVO early on because of the engine damage they were seeing. You see the glycerin in the VO does not but hardly at all. No way of getting around that.

BTW, if you have a filter that will clean glycerine out of VO of any kind sell me the technology and we will both get rich.

Reply #21May 12, 2013, 10:48:35 am

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2013, 10:48:35 am »
Toby, didn't they find that mixing the WVO with lye and methanol in correct proportions based on pH of the oil took care of the Glycerin?  Hence developing BD?  

Are you looking for the technology that does that on the fly?  need to have another tank or means to dispose of the glycerin.  Not just hose it down to the ground either as I am sure that would be recommend by some reading here.  Blow by OK, but slippery substances the make wheels go weeee.  Not so much.

I don't think it would be a filter per se, it would have to be a separator.  Something along the line of an air hose water separator.  You would have to empty it.  And that would be tricky, and likely messy.  Not to mention slippery.  

How many home production folks are set up this well and follow these guidelines?  Few I am sure of that. 

http://web.cals.uidaho.edu/biodiesel/files/2012/11/Technote7_HB.pdf

« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 11:05:59 am by ORCoaster »

Reply #22May 12, 2013, 02:30:22 pm

Toby

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2013, 02:30:22 pm »
You missed the point. BD has no glycerine, so it does not have that problem. No amount of filtering will cure the issues with trying to burn glycerine.

As to the noises the engine is making: If you are wrong the motor will be junk in a few minutes. I have heard lots of motor noises in lots and lots of diesels. Usually if you have an air leak bad enough to make those kinds of sounds it is about impossible to start the motor w/o dragging it a while or running it on WD-40 sprayed down the intake.

Reply #23May 12, 2013, 03:09:22 pm

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2013, 03:09:22 pm »
I quit even clicking on FS adds that have "WVO" in them anywhere.
If for no other reason than the cars are chronically disgusting and smelly
since apparently the majority of people that use it are part-timers and trying to get
something (a ride) for free.  To each there own but I consider it a real shame
so many good cars/motors of a dwindling supply have been ruined by the stuff.
Be it from incorrect and uninformed use or an actual unavoidable problem.
Result is the same.  I'm pretty happy to pay $4/gal for my 40mpg-ish ride
until it runs out or they come up with affordable higher capacity/output batteries
so I can convert something and it not be a joke. 

My .02c


Am interested to hear what a pressurized fuel supply with straight diesel does on the van still.

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Reply #24May 12, 2013, 07:33:45 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2013, 07:33:45 pm »
Toby.  I understood exactly what you were saying.  I think you missed my point   Read it again...  Took care of the glycerin!!! 

Maybe I should have ended with thus they came out with BD.  Sorry if I miss led you. 

That is the solution to glycerin in WVO as I comprehend it.  But I still have a WVO setup.  The individual I was getting oil from was an out of work engineer who demanded the right raw product, has a great filtering, centrifuge drying system so I never got a line to form in the containers I stored his delivered goods in. 

I don't run much on WVO anymore so the payback on my super heated, super filter, super gauged system is for wow factor only now.  I thought about pulling it but just siphoned out the weight instead.  Now it is ass end high from the spacers I put on earlier. 

Reply #25May 13, 2013, 12:18:45 am

Toby

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 12:18:45 am »
BD and WVO are very different animals. I run BD in some of my rigs, and shortly will run it in all of them. My point was: WVO is crap; BD is good. Because BD has eliminated the glycerine it has none of the issues with eating the piston/rings/bores over time that WVO does. All your super filtering aside, it still has all of the glycerine based valve grinding compound being created inside your motor.

Reply #26May 13, 2013, 02:03:06 am

745 turbogreasel

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 02:03:06 am »
How much wear are you talking?
One  guy I know went 300K miles on Veg, saved the money he would have spent on fuel, then bought a brand new truck with it.
No rebuilds were done.

I've seen a ton of  vehicles rendered inoperative by  poor plumbing, and only one engine  defineably destroyed by deposits...but that guy was  hardly changing his oil while dumping iffy WVO straight in his main tank, and sometimes getting less than a day per fuel filter.  I've also seen some wasted injection pumps.

Reply #27May 13, 2013, 08:32:54 am

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2013, 08:32:54 am »
How much wear are you talking?
One  guy I know went 300K miles on Veg, saved the money he would have spent on fuel, then bought a brand new truck with it.
No rebuilds were done.

I've seen a ton of  vehicles rendered inoperative by  poor plumbing, and only one engine  defineably destroyed by deposits...but that guy was  hardly changing his oil while dumping iffy WVO straight in his main tank, and sometimes getting less than a day per fuel filter.  I've also seen some wasted injection pumps.

Much like turbo'ing a NA motor, if you cut the life expectancy of a 600-800K motor in half
it's still longer/farther than most anyone keeps or drives a given vehicle. 
Commercial use excepted. 
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Reply #28May 13, 2013, 08:39:18 am

Toby

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2013, 08:39:18 am »
Don't be silly. Most VW diesels don't get 200K without replacement or major repair work. It is possible to get more, but 600K is a pipe dream. I have owned well over 3 dozen diesel Rabbits and Jettas and worked on a hundred more and I have never seen one get 300K on the original motor. I know that they do sometimes rack up that kind of mileage but it is truly exceptional.

Reply #29May 13, 2013, 08:49:18 am

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Re: So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way.
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2013, 08:49:18 am »
No, having a single owner and consistent maintenance is what is exceptional.
The motors will do 500 on the bottom end if one does not screw something up, usually need a head every 200K or thereabouts.
The chassis they are in usually fall apart or rust or get wrecked or become so threadbare that people don't want them,
and maintenance has long since fallen by the wayside when things are at this point with a 3rd, 4th or 5th owner.
We racked crazy miles on these things way back when.

Least the factory stuff, no comment on rebuilds, most are insufficient in some area.

Not all that different from the Merc diesels of the era, VW not quite as durable or long lived
but pretty close.
Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
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