So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way. - page 1 - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• So my 1.6TD is running like a dragster, but not in a good way. by Bugsy_malone 666 on 09 May, 2013 08:45
• Ok I had a thread on here recently about how the my camper with a 1.6TD engine was running like a heap, when through tons of stuff and ended up finding that there was a bad valve lifter on cylinder3.
  
  So I totally replaced the hydro lifters with new ones, retimmed the cam and fuel pump, along the injectors from another engine and once the engine was running, it was fine. Had a water leak and fixed that despite getting the engine super hot it was still all good and then I ran it for a few hundred miles.
  
  So basically after a bit of a test run I drove to my g/fs 35 miles away, warmed the engine up and went over to the veg oil tank and it ran ok but wasnt great, so I have been thinking its the filters, so I changed them after covering around 60 miles on veg oil total. I did manage to cover about 30 odd miles also on regular fresh shell diesel which is decent stuff from a fuel station which is only 6 months old(so new tanks and everything). Then the other weekend it started really badly before I went to go home, so I drove home on veg oil for about 15-20 of the 35mile journey, got home and parked it up. At the time it was really loud as the exhaust had broken, however when I went to start it the other day it had bigger issues!
  
  So heres 2 videos of it running for a couple of minutes:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2y3pU26mms
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZsN1QGzzGg
  
  Basically you can see just about on the video how its smoking like hell and thats on diesel too and having run for a good 5-10 miles before switch off on diesel so the system is purged of any oil.
  
  This problem is similar to what I had before only 10 times worse. It starts easily but runs like a heap, once its warmed up it runs ok ( as you can see from the second video near the end when I'm at the back it runs almost clear once you get above idle) and after 10 minutes or so its almost normal. Listening to it, it does sound like majorly noisy injector and at certain revs the engine becomes quieter.
  
  The question is, could the fuel pump be kippered also causing injector nailing, or equally explain why after a few minutes of warm up it starts running better (like something has expanded causing greater fuel pressure so actually firing properly)
  
  I'm a bit stuck now
• #1 by libbydiesel on 09 May, 2013 10:26
• Wow dude, STOP running it.  It sounds like your cam timing is off and your pistons are hitting your valves. 
• #2 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 09 May, 2013 16:53
• Quote from: libbydiesel on 09 May, 2013 10:26

  Wow dude, STOP running it.  It sounds like your cam timing is off and your pistons are hitting your valves. 
  

  
  Yes it sounds a bit like that but I have driven about 500 miles in the past few weeks and I can assure you thats not the problem, as previously I have had this same problem which turned out to be a bad hydraulic lifter coupled with slightly out injector pump timing. I have as a result recently totally cam/crank/injector timing and its spot on/has been running so.
  
  The problem has been once its been run on WVO for a while, to this point you see here which is exactly what it did in november.
  
• #3 by 745 turbogreasel on 09 May, 2013 17:09
• Maybe possible if the head was decked, but the valve seats not  cut to mach?
• #4 by pvc4life on 09 May, 2013 18:36
• Quote from: 745 turbogreasel on 09 May, 2013 17:09

  Maybe possible if the head was decked, but the valve seats not  cut to mach?
  

  
  There would be a compression issue.
• #5 by 745 turbogreasel on 09 May, 2013 22:44
• The head is already flat,  decking it brigs the valves closer to the pistons without changing compression much.
• #6 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 10 May, 2013 08:26
• The engine has 155k on the clock, its never had the head off. I'm just really scratching my head as to where to start with this now as its strange how the problem has reoccured, I can only think injection pump issues now.
• #7 by TylerDurden on 10 May, 2013 08:55
• Anytime I've seen an engine run that badly, it was from starvation, air or loose injector lines. I think a plugging out-bolt might have similar effect.
  
  I'd cycle a can of Diesel-purge to kill two birds: bottle feed and de-gunk. If the problem resolves, I'd check the cleaning/dewatering and lines/filtration.
  
  If not, I'd swap in an IN-bolt to ensure the OUT bolt is not the issue, and pop the injectors. If those are good, then the IP would be my prime suspect.
  
  
  
  
• #8 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 10 May, 2013 17:18
• Ok tonight I have done a bit more trouble shooting.
  
  I think its fuel related, that much I am certain. So Tonight I started the van up and heres the thing it actually starts really well, unlike previous issues it starts straight away but may not fully fire up unless I have my foot on the throttle. So I think the timing is bang on. Using the Cold start advance has very little affect, a tiny bit, but not alot.
  
  So I got it started, running like a dragster as per videos and revving it didnt cure anything to start with and generally it was hammering pretty badly. I figured I'll run it for a few minutes to warm it up and see how things change and sure enough after a few minutes at lower revs (1500rpm or so) it suddenly stopped hammering and sounding like a bag of nails and it quietened down to sound 'normal' but it was spitting a little and then it just seemed to clear, it stopped smoking and was running 'nice' at 1500rpm.
  
  I revved it up and it was still sounding ok but at really high revs is was still a little noisy. Then I let the revs drop. I proceeded to gently lower the RPM from 1500-1400-1300-1200 (I dont have a rev counter but you can kinda tell) and it was running as it should, until I got to about 1000rpm where it missed the odd beat so letting off further it turned evil dragster, it was like you got to 1000rpm and someone threw a bag of nails in the manifold! From 4 cylinder to 2 cylinders with a ton of smoke and a bag of spanners sound!
  
  Raising the revs back to 1000rpm didnt really solve it, but raised a little further it just cleared totally back to silence running.
  
  It will not idle at all, it stalled umpteen times and at a push it runs for about 30 seconds like a dragster when you let off the throttle making it difficult to even get to the back of the van to rev it up and listen that end!
  
  As light wasnt great as it was getting late I couldnt see alot in the engine bay, but what I have noticed is I have a small diesel leak, for some reason it seems that on cylinder 2 the injector is leaking, the other week I though it was the return line, so I replaced those all but still it was wet and when I had a closer look it was leaking from around the nut that goes onto the injector, the nuts tight too, so unless theres a tiny bit of something on top of the injector of the pipe just needs seating, but seriously I cant see that causing the way this runs, we have lots of other diesel stuff here and you just lose a cylinder when you crack a pipe off or have a leak, it doesnt sound like a bag of nails!
  
  I mean I dont have masses of experience with diesel, but to me it seems like the pumps not putting out enough pressure on idle and when the revs pick up its then enough to pop the injectors properly (which I changed the other month for a better set I have which may just need a higher pop pressure). On the previous thread I had it was mentioned about the vanes inside the pump sticking and I am wondering if thats the trouble I have, so tomorrow I am going to look to swap the fuel pump over with the others I have (I have a TD of an unknown quantity and an NA that I ran for a while then had starting problems, which we think was down to the slow starter that then when pop). If the problem remains then then I will swap from my unknown TD to my NA pump, now I know how to time it all up and see how that goes, the NA pump used to run the injectors but if the TD pump works then I'll stick with it and tear mine down.
  
  Other than that I am not sure, I do think however the engine itself is in average mechanical condition and the noise and issues I'm having are fuel pump related.
  
  Any other suggestions would be useful while stripping it.
  
  Cheers
  
• #9 by 8v-of-fury on 10 May, 2013 19:36
• I'd tear apart your 1.6 TD pump that you have on the shelf and reseal it prior to stripping in to your bus. For the amount of work you are about to partake on.. It would be worthwhile to swap in a good pump to begin with. Don't you think? lol.
  
  There are DIY's out there to rebuild pumps, and the seal kits are readily available.. Might as well learn how to now eh? lol.
• #10 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 10 May, 2013 20:09
• well in my mind swapping the pump over isnt all that long job based on 4 hard lines, 4 flexi lines, 4 bolts and a cambelt. However I have seen how many parts there are in the TD pump and my workshop is in no way clean/clear enough to start working on fuel pumps.
  
  Plus at the moment its the time, by the time I track a rebuild kit down and get it shipped thats a week, plus rebuild time, if I swap pumps its a mornings work
  
  Rebuilds on the cards as I also planned to look into the governor mod while I have a pump in bits anyway 
• #11 by 8v-of-fury on 10 May, 2013 20:55
• Alright then, I'd at least recommend running the pump with a drill and fuel lines to make sure it is pumping correctly prior to installation and to be sure that there is no crud stuck in there. I recommend using ATF as the fuel you will be running through it, as it will clean and lubricate. Install it full of fuel for no priming BS when first starting.
• #12 by ORCoaster on 10 May, 2013 22:41
• You mention IP pressure as a possible culprit.  Have you tried tapping in the regulator on the front of the pump a tad or two?  Raises the base internal pressure and may change initial timing.  Could be as easy as tapping on a punch and hammer.  Granted in the space you have that is no easy chore.  Vans got a nasty rep for that reason I think.
  I much rather have a hood.  Now for back seat room?  There you go me. 
  
• #13 by Toby on 11 May, 2013 00:10
• I can't believe you ran the motor sounding like that. When a motor sounds like that shut it off and find out why before you ruin everything. It sounds to me like you do not have enough oil pressure to keep the lifters pumped up. Does the light even work? Put a gauge on it for a while to verify what the oil pressure really is. If that's OK check the cam timing. I don't care if you checked it 2 minutes ago, recheck it NOW. Something in the valve train is banging hard. I expect you don't have much more running time before it gets really expensive. Make SURE you get an oil pressure reading when it's banging it guts out, not just during a quiet period. If all that is good, then move on to fuel issues.
  
  FYI running that WVO crap through these motors ruins them, so don't do it on anything that you do not intend to scrap when it quits. U of Idaho did a lot of research on this along with their BD stuff and discovered that do to incomplete combustion of the glycerine in the WVO, you end up with a bunch of gummy deposits on the injector nozzle that collect carbon particles to form a nice abrasive goo that eventually sheds and eats the rings and cylinder walls.
• #14 by wolf_walker on 11 May, 2013 01:59
• Every time, and there haven't been many, I have heard a vw-d run ragged like that when it wasn't hard-core mechanical faults, it was air in the fuel, lots.
  
  It sounds exactly like the last Rabbit I tried to get to fire up with a huge sucking lesion in the front pump seal.
  The rest I can't tell if it's exhaust or mechanical noise.