So my pump has a KSB..

[wolf_walker]

Like a Cummins VE, this one is the wax motor type.

I found this pump a couple years ago brand new, not rebuilt, for cheap
and sent my Father to buy it when he was driving this truck and it's been on there ever sense.

These numbers are on it if one is curious.

0 460 484 108
068 130 109 R1 B00
870 09500
2933 09 2

We've never used the cold start, never needed it on this motor in Oklahoma winter temps. (fresh AAZ).
Or, we've been using it and didn't know it.
My Father is a pilot/mechanic and if something seems to work OK and isn't going to crash him into the ground,
he tends to leave it be so I never really pondered it till today.

I put a belt on it and checked the timing while ago (.93) and started pondering that KSB.

Near as I can figure, it should get 12v (or 8V apparently in some trucks?), and it may or may not
quit advancing timing just from ambient heat (I'm betting not).

Being that is is a pressure altering device to advance timing and not a physical one like the manual cable we are all used to,
I don't believe static timing should be any different with it on there.  I do wonder if timing is advanced a bit
at lower RPM's with it not getting power, though there is no evidence of it really.  The MPG has never been
brag-worthy on this motor and it seems, in NA trim, to have a lot more mid and top end than I would have thought.
This may or may not be related, no smoke, good starts, etc, etc. 

I plan to apply 12v to it after it's back together and see if I can tell any difference in it running, I really wish I
knew if it was rated for 12v or some lower voltage, hate to burn the thing out.  Also I wish I knew if the housing
would accept the later mechanical style solenoid.

Thoughts?

[8v-of-fury]

Pictures are worth a thousand words

Lets see what you got.

[wolf_walker]

I think I google'd answers to most of my questions but I still want to hear what ya'll have to say.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[8v-of-fury]

I have never had my hands on one of these yet. Is that "fuel solenoid" on the front in there? With a plunger? How does it work exactly? 

[TylerDurden]

That is the "waxmotor" (auf Deutsch) KSB. A wax pellet expands when the engine gets warm and opens a valve to let the pressure in the IP go back (lower) to normal.

"Hydraulic cold-start accelerator Advancing the start of injection by shifting the timing-device piston has only limited applications. In the case of the hydraulic start-of-injection advance, the speed-dependent pump interior pressure is applied to the timing-device piston. In order to implement a start-of- injection advance, referred to the conventional timing-device curve, the pump interior pressure is increased automatically. To do so, the automatic control of pump interior pressure is modified through a bypass in the pressure-holding valve.

The hydraulic cold-start accelerator comprises a modified pressure-control valve, a KSB ball valve, a KSB control valve, and an electrically heated expansion element.



The fuel delivered by the fuel-supply pump is applied to one of the timing device piston’s end faces via the injection pump’s interior. In accordance with the injection pump’s interior pressure, the piston is shifted against the force of its spring and changes the start-of- injection timing. Pump interior pressure is determined by a pressurecontrol valve which increases pump interior pressure along with increasing pump speed and the resulting rise in pump delivery (Fig. 15). There is a restriction passage in the pressure-control valve’s plunger in order to achieve the pressure increase needed for the KSB function, and the resulting advance curve shown as a dotted line in Fig. 16. This ensures that the same pressure is effective at the spring side of the pressure-control valve. The KSB ball-type valve has a correspondingly higher pressure level and is used in conjunction with the thermo-element both for switching-on and switching-off the KSB function, as well as for safety switchoff. Using an adjusting screw in the integrated KSB control valve, the KSB function can be set to a given engine speed. The fuel supply pump pressure shifts the KSB control valve’s plunger against the force of a spring. A damping restriction is used to reduce the pressure fluctuations at the control plunger. The KSB pressure characteristic is controlled by its plunger’s control edge and the section at the valve holder. The KSB function is adapted by correct selection of the KSB control valve’s spring rate and its control section. When the warm engine is started, the expansion element has already opened the ball valve due to the prevailing temperature."


I had one like that on a franken-caddy.

AIUI, in original configuration, the KSB would get 12V from a thermoswitch. Mine had no hookup and seemed to work fine.

I don't think a mechanical solenoid will work, but an old-school lever/cam on the other side might.

[wolf_walker]

Very cool, thank you sir

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[mtrans]

Try
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=31952.0
http://www.dieselbombers.com/1st-generation-dodge-cummins-89-93/21942-bosch-ve-pump-operation.html
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/89-93-powertrain/12280-what-exactly-does-ksb-solenoid-do.html

Something like that I get,but no time to instal and test.

[wolf_walker]

Got it running again today, let it idle about a minute, hooked up the KSB (which pulls half an amp btw), and in 30-40 seconds there was a noticeable decrease in clatter.  I don't think it'd be as noticeable when warm, but it's working.  I wired it up with the shutoff solenoid for now, might need a switch in colder weather to delay it some, or a fancy circuit.

[ToddA1]

I have a similar pump from a A2 Jetta.  My solenoid looks like a stop solenoid.

I've heard to Giles mention it advances timing.  Some people liked it hooked up, others said otherwise, others stated no difference.

I planned on wiring it to a WOT switch, but like most of my projects, I go as far as buying the parts and that's where it ends.  The pump has been on a shelf for close to a year, if not longer.

-Todd

[TylerDurden]

AIUI...

this is "waxmotor" KSB


This is electro/hydraulic KSB:


The KSB devices connect to the pressure regulator and raise internal pressure, increasing advance.




This device connects to the governor shaft bleed ports and defeats the LFB (Load Sensitive Torque Control) ***disregard the red circle, the valves are not the same***:


Load-dependent start of delivery with deactivation feature:

"The LFB can be deactivated to reduce HC emissions generated by the diesel engine when it is cold (< 60'c). This process employs a solenoid valve (8) to block the fuel. This solenoid valve is open when de-energized.

LFB will retard timing unless the solenoid has power.